Synonyms?

[david-us.livejournal.com]

I was wondering if some of you native Russian speakers could tell me if the following word pairs are completely synonomous in that any sentence construction where one is used could just as easily be used by creating a sentence using the other word - without changing the context. If the context changes, could you briefly explain in what way the words are different by creating your own example sentences highlighting this difference?

The reason I ask this: For some reason, when I attempt to speak Russian I have a strong preference for the first word in each pair. Yet, when I listen to native Russians speak (online Russian radio) I frequently hear usage of the other word.

здесь - тут  (This is the least perplexing for me as I actually do hear many native Russian speakers use здесь. The problem is that I don't think I would ever use "тут" in any other context except for an exchange where the word "там" is used. "Где Иван? Он там?"  "Нет. Он тут!" For some reason, my usage of "тут" is completely limited to that type of exchange.)

теперь - сейчас

нельзя - невозможно (I find it interesting how Russians will often create an adverb by simply negating its antonym: немедленно, for example. That is very counter intuitive to English speakers. If we mean "quickly" we don't think "not slowly". I would probably always use быстро where some may use немедленно.)

можно - возможно

учиться - заниматься

If you can think of any additional word pairs for which English speakers typically have a preference for the wrong one, I'd be interested in reading about it.

Thanks!

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Comments

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

"здесь" = "тут"; the former used to be more literary but I don't think it's still perceived this way.

"теперь" = "сейчас"

"нельзя" means "prohibited" (= "запрещено"); it is also a more colloquial word for "impossible"
"невозможно", on the other hand, is the main word for "impossible"; it can very seldom mean "prohibited"

"можно" is the antonym to "нельзя", just as "возможно" is the antonym of "невозможно"

"учиться" is a more general word; it just means "learn". "заниматься" is about formal studies, usually about doing homework or being in a classroom.

Just note that "немедленно" doesn't mean "quickly", it means "at once, immediately"

[moola.livejournal.com]

You may use "сейчас" (but not "теперь") as synonym for "немедленно".

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Just note that "немедленно" doesn't mean "quickly", it means "at once, immediately"

Then, how does that differ from the use of сразу, which I would probably use instead of немедленно.

By the way: I hope my silly questions are not considered an annoyance. It's just that I was very excited when I stumbled onto this forum where there were native/learned speakers of Russian who are willing to help neophytes such as myself. I really appreciate it! I have learned much since I began posting here.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

firstly, "сразу" seems more colloquial; secondly, "сразу" also has another meaning: "all at once, together" (все сразу = each and every one)

Good luck in learning Russian! Your questions would be an annoyance...in another community!

[zhp.livejournal.com]

<(I find it interesting how Russians will often create an adverb by simply negating its antonym: немедленно, for example. That is very counter intuitive to English speakers.

Really? What about "sincerely" - insincerely", "fortunately" - "unfortunately"? There is really not much difference between Russian and English in word formation in this case

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Good point. Touché!

I retract my statement. :)

[slovami.livejournal.com]

I think it's just that Russian and English form different adverbs this way, which makes it sound weird to us sometimes. The funniest one to me, besides немедленно, is безопасно. Некрасиво is also great.

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

1. "здесь" and "тут" are synonyms meaning "here" ("здесь вам не тут" is just a linguistic joke)
2. "теперь" == "now", "сейчас" == "at this very time" (lit: "in a hour", compare to archaic "сей же час")
3. "нельзя" == "prohibited", "невозможно" == "impossible"
4. "можно" == "allowed", "возможно" == "possible"
5. "учиться" == "to learn", "заниматься"... hmmm... my knowledge of English is too poor for exact translation - "to practice", "to get experience", "to be busy with something" are close, but inexact :-(

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

just catched the difference: "здесь" is used as "exactly here" ("жди меня здесь"), and "тут" as "somewhere around" ("я тут рядом")

[anusoida.livejournal.com]

Жди меня здесь (и никуда не уходи) = Жди меня тут (и никуда не уходи).

[creiz.livejournal.com]

Judging by classification of synonyms the difference mostly lies in stylistics. If we take здесь-тут (this pair is one of very few so-called absolute synonyms in Russian, btw) the slightest difference is that the first one of them could be used anywhere while the second one shouldn't be used in business-letter style, 'cause it's more colloquial.
Among теперь-сейчас the second one is more official and more all-purpose. This is quite hard to grasp, but it seems you use теперь when you need to add some emotions in your colloquial phrase. Well, you say Теперь и по домам пора! or Ну и времена теперь! rather than with "сейчас".
The degree of officiality in возможно is way higher than in можно (when you want to say 'it's possible to do sth'). When you answer to your boss, for example, "это сделать возможно" it sounds a bit like a report.
The, you can учиться only when you are in some sort of educational organization (school, uni, etc.), but when you home, you can only заниматься.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

You can учиться only when you are in some sort of educational organization (school, uni, etc.), but when you home, you can only заниматься.

That's quite the opposite of what another responder said about these two verbs. Now I'm completely confused.

[creiz.livejournal.com]

Well, yeah, it happens))) Let's try to get un-confused with examples)))
Я учусь в университете. Meaning that you entered uni and now a student.
Отстань, я занимаюсь! That's something you say when someone's botheringyou while you're trying to get your homework done.
Я занимаюсь карате. Meaning you took up karate and now attend, say, some karate-club on pretty regular basis.

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

Учиться means to study smth or somewhere (at school, in university etc). Заниматься has different meanings. First, it can mean doing study when a more immediate context is applied.

Я учусь английскому (though Я изучаю английский will be more comfortable) - I study English.
Я занимаюсь английским - I'm doing my English studies (if the process is continuous) BUT at the same time it can mean "I study English" if the process is more indefinite.

Заниматься can also mean teaching smth to someone: Я занимаюсь с ним английским - I teach him English.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

+1
- Чем вы занимаетесь?
- Продаю матрешки.

- Чем ты занимаешься?
- Я посуду мыл когда ты позвонила.

Заниматься isn't necessarily focused on studying. It's applicable to work as well and other activities.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

The degree of officiality in возможно is way higher than in можно (when you want to say 'it's possible to do sth'). When you answer to your boss, for example, "это сделать возможно" it sounds a bit like a report.

So, are you saying the usage of возможно is less or more common in conversational usage? Also, in your example ("это сделать возможно"), are you saying, in that context, the use of можно would be more appropriate?

[creiz.livejournal.com]

First, Russian возможно has 2 meanings:
1) Let's take these 2 little dialogues in English:
- So, are you going to this party?
- Yeah, probably.
- Ну что, пойдешь на вечеринку?
- Да, возможно. (You can also use может быть or наверное, but never можно)
In this case возможно denotes the degree of probability (like in 'probability theory')

2)
- Do you think it's OK to do this way?
- Yes, but I think it's possible to do it differently (you could do it another way)
- По-твоему, можно это так сделать?
- Да, но возможно и по-другому. (And here you can use можно instead of возможно)
Meaning that there's another way to do sth. And this meaning has nothing to do with degree of probability, that's why using можно is possible.

So, now we're talking about the second meaning. And here можно is used more common, unless it's business-like style (so-called деловой стиль), probably due to one main law of oral speech such as 'the less effords it take to express one's thought, the better' (in theory of communication in Russian it's called закон экономии речевых усилий).

[creiz.livejournal.com]

Oh, yeah, one more thing, about можно. In Russian it assumes functions of English modal verb 'may', i.e.
- May I buy a candy, mom?
- Можно я куплю себе конфету, мам?
And in this case you can't use возможно.

Here's the summary table
* the choise depending on the style used.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

and there's no можный вариант, only возможный вариант.
Можно is often used in questions: Можно мне войти? May I come in?
It cannot be replaced by возможно in such questions because можно is about a permission, whereas возможно is about a possibility.
- Почему он не пришел на вечеринку? Why didn't he come to the party?
- Не знаю. Возможно он слишком устал? I don't know. Perhaps he was too tired?
I think возможно is a better synonym with может быть than with можно.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

Let's say I am not home but you need to go over to my house to get something important you left there. You ask me if you can go retrieve it. I give you permission. But, you're wondering if the house will be all locked up and whether it would even be possible for you get inside the house. In this context, could you ask me, "Возможно мне войти?", meaning, "Is it possible for me to get into the house?" Will it be locked? You already have permission, you're just wondering whether it's possible.

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

"Возможно мне войти?" doesn't sound right and people may probably still interpret it as broken "можно мне войти?" A better variant would be "Могу я войти?", but that unfortunately can be interpreted as either. The best would be "Смогу я войти?" (future + perfect), an unambiguous variant.

[just1user.livejournal.com]

Теперь/сейчас - one can't say "теперь два часа дня"

[madrumos.livejournal.com]

Yes. I had always heard that теперь focuses more on change, whereas сейчас is a constant state of events.

For instance:
Раньше я не видел его, а теперь я вижу.
Cейчас would also work here, but теперь stresses that something has changed.

Сейчас is more of just a statement of fact: Я сейчас смотрю телевизор. If you were to say Я теперь смотрю телевизор it would imply that you were just recently doing something else.

At least that's the way it seems to me.

You (and everyone else) should pick up a copy of Wade's Comprehensive Russian Grammar. It is packed with stuff on usage like this, in addition to everything on Russian grammar you would ever want to know.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

I think the difference between the two is that сейчас is indeed multipurpose whereas теперь should be used in apposition to something that happened in the past.
Я сейчас не пью - I don't drink now/this time of day
Я теперь (больше) не пью - I don't drink anymore
Теперь я знаю - I didn't use to know
Помой сейчас посуду - Wash the dishes now
Помой теперь посуду - Now that you've done [something else], wash the dishes

[o-jovem-louco.livejournal.com]

Moreover, the word сейчас can be used in sentences like Сейчас посмотрю, which means I'll look in a mo' (though its usage in Russian is much wider than its English analogue), while теперь cannot. There's a similar translation of сейчас which you are probably aware of: I'll be back in a sec! Wait!

[devitor.livejournal.com]

теперь - сейчас
It's complete sinonyms, though in buissness and political sphere traditionally the last is used, оr even 'в настоящее время'.

можно - возможно
It's like 'can' vs 'it is possible', for ex. 'Возможно, мы неправы' BUT 'Можно, я открою окно?'

учиться - заниматься
It's like 'to study' vs 'to be busy with': you can be busy with learning, but not only that. 'Я не могу сейчас заниматься твоими проблемами', 'Займите кто-нибудь ребенка (meaning, get him busy with play etc.)'

[david-us.livejournal.com]

I just thought of another pair that gives me problems:

надо - нужен

I can never decide whether I should say "У меня болит голова. Мне надо аспирин." or "Мне нужен аспирин."

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

I'd use 'нужен' if the object is a noun. If it's the infinitive form of a verb, both variants seem to be okay.

Мне надо/нужно сходить к врачу.
Мне надо/нужно сделать уборку.
Мне нужен аспирин.
Мне нужна помощь. ('Мне надо помощь' isn't acceptable, 'Мне надо помощи' doesn't sound right.)

Thus, 'нужно' changes itself and accepts the basic form of the object, and 'надо' doesn't change and requires the object to inflect if necessary.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

And the hits keep on coming!

What's the difference between:

Он умер.

Он мёртв.

Он погиб.

In conversation, how would you tell somebody, "My father passed away 12 years ago." I'm always afraid that when I say it I will use the wrong word and it will sound more like my father was executed or murdered 12 years ago. In English, we often say "passed away" as a nicer way to say "died." How do the Russians soften the meaning? Or do they?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

I guess it whould be 'Мой отец ушел из жизни 12 лет назад.'

'Погиб' means either that a person has died heroically (like in a battle), or as a result of an accident or catastrophe (like a car wreck, hurricane).

[zhp.livejournal.com]

The difference between Он умер and Он мёртв is somewhat like the difference between He died and He is dead, but I have the impression that in English people tend to use the phrase "he is dead" more often than the corresponding Russian phrase. The only situation that I can think of when people would say Он мёртв is when someone is trying to see if someone is actually dead or alive, for example, after an accident, in hospital, or seeing an unconscious body on the street. But I heard English-speaking people say things like, "My grandmother lives in Chicago, and my grandfather is dead", whereas in Russain you should say "умер".

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

David_us, thank you for posting all of your questions. I have learned a considerable amount of the nuances thanks to you and all of the knowledgeable and gracious folk who answer the questions!

Spasibo bolshoye!

[paparazzzzi.livejournal.com]

Немедленно does not mean 'not slowly', it means 'right now', without delay.