cultural question

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Hey guys, does the concept of suburbia exist in Russian? I'm looking for a word for "suburbs", but the closest I've got is "пригород" which doesn't seem to mean exactly the same thing. What would you call something that looks like this?



I think most Russians probably don't live in places like these (while almost everyone in Australia does) so is it better to say австралийский пригород or американский пригород to distinguish them from the Russian пригороды which seem to just be smaller cities?

Comments

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

предместья

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

Too archaic...

[avatarakali.livejournal.com]

жилой район - living area kinda
жилые кварталы - blocks of houses
спальный район - a bit too much about soviet-times multi-stores buildings, but in general - that's it.

[http://users.livejournal.com/antiquer_/]

I'd say suburb is "окраина". It is the most suitable translation for the case.

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

Yes, "пригород" is a good equivalent to "suburb".

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

the adjective загородный would describe this kind of housing, but I can't think of a noun like "suburbia" you could form from it

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

No - "окраина" means "part of city close to its border".
For example, Vykhino (http://maps.yandex.ru/map.xml?mapID=2000&mapX=4209183&mapY=7467030&scale=7&slices=1) is "окраина", but Lyubertsy (http://maps.yandex.ru/map.xml?mapID=2000&mapX=4217094&mapY=7460322&scale=7&slices=1) is "пригород".

[haallan.livejournal.com]

коттеджный поселок, I think.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

Russians usually don't build individual houses so densely, each house stands on a yard at least 600 sq. meters large, used either for gardening or just for rest. So exactly this can't be seen here.

[kwai.livejournal.com]

+1

[ex-subversus501.livejournal.com]

No things like this here. Unfortunately....

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

seems like this is closest to what is shown on the picture.

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

but sounds really bad :-)

Suburb

[ldybdahl.livejournal.com]

Several answers focus on the way that the houses are built. However, "suburb" is a word that focuses on the function, not the kinds of buildings. To me, a suburb is always a separate village, located outside the big city, that is totally depending on the city. For instance, I'd say that Мытищи is a suburb to Moscow. However, the actual use of suburb probably depends a little on what city you live close to.

Re: Suburb

[ldybdahl.livejournal.com]

By the way - I have been around this board for some while, and probably should present myself. I am a beginner in Russian language, I can probably read 2000 words and type on a cyrillic keyboard, but have no exercise in talking the language. My primary language is Danish, second German, third is English. Danish has a lot of similarities with both English and Russian.

I communicate in English with Russian-language people on a daily basis, and type Доброе утро on my pc at least once every day. I love the discussions here, this is really a cool place :-)

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

I just did an image search. They do look like suburbs, though I guess you can't really use коттеджный поселок to describe something a little lower-class like this, right?



PS I think what you call "коттеджи" we call "McMansions" ;)

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

I think you misspelled "fortunately" :V

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

ot but i'm very thankful russian and russia doesn't have this

[haallan.livejournal.com]

the fact is, you can't live in suburb and be of lower-class. individual houses like these can afford only people with higher-than-medium income. another kind of individual houses are "dachas", and they indeed can be rather cheap and affordable - but they are used only as vacation homes, not the places for actual living.

[ex-subversus501.livejournal.com]

no :) It's a long discussion, I'd prefer not to do hold it in English - too much time to make my point :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/antiquer_/]

I suppose the person is asking exactly in the meaning of "part of the city".

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

'bad' refers to the expression which is long, unnatural and too official sounding. It may be all right in a document but that's about it. One could just say посёлок.

[ldybdahl.livejournal.com]

These apartment blocks are in the suburb "Virum", outside Copenhagen in Denmark, about 15km from Copenhagen city center:

http://www.dabbolig.dk/upload/images/file_a44bda41-50fc-4eec-90df-31294b3c183b.jpg

"Suburb" is not about the type of buildings.

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I noticed that searching for коттедж only turns up pictures of giant baroque monstrosities. Including some, ah, interesting architectural designs, I mean come on, do you really want your house to look like some 14th century cottage on steroids? Hehe.

[oryx_and_crake]

+1

[aciel.livejournal.com]

Heh. It's almost like they translated the roots directly and then stuck them back together. pre=sub, gorod=burb. Hehehe.

It's also worth pointing out that the appearance of suburbs in America depended heavily on both car culture and capitalism (since having a house with a nice white fence was considered a status symbol). When I went to Moscow, I was mostly only in the main part of the city, but even journeying out to the outskirts I don't remember seeing anything that reminded me of American suburbs.

Of course, perhaps such things have only just begun to develop since perestroyka.

(People are welcome to correct me on any of this.)

[aciel.livejournal.com]

'Course, dachas are similar to suburbs, excepting that they tend to be a little further out on average, and people only go there on weekends...

[aciel.livejournal.com]

Those aren't McMansions. McMansions are the cookie-cutter ones that all have a set floor plan and only vary in exterior and landscaping. They're also very large. These look much smaller and a little more unique.

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

That's the way it sounds to me. Tastes differ, don't they. Now don't get aggressive :-)
Plus, you can always look up a word in a dictionary.

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

yup it does :)

[andrey-bessonov.livejournal.com]

I may have got the context wrong. I don't think anyone will say "коттеджный посёлок" when just chatting with friends over a cup of coffee. However this word might be useful to use in formal setting.

[fint.livejournal.com]

there's no Middle class in Russia, so people either live in small flats or in large Cottages... And no "suburbs" exists=)

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

You mean the picture I posted? Nah, that's just a picture of a normal suburb. If you mean коттеджи in general, I dunno, they look like McMansions to me (http://content.foto.mail.ru/mail/respecthouse/respect/i-66.jpg).

[oryx_and_crake]

Suburbs are not a part of the city, by definition. They are outside.

[oryx_and_crake]

Suburb is where the people live who work in the city (that's an important point); therefore, a dacha is not like a suburb at all.

[hellina.livejournal.com]

Thank you - Now I am feeling non-existent -)

[alon_68]

"Suburb" is the reality that requires a car for each adult inhabitant, otherwise it would become "countryside", "rural area" with the similar options for working, shopping, entertainment etc... Even the middle class in Moscow not always can afford a car (and moreover two cars for a family), not speaking about other cities. So, to live in suburb while accessing all opportunities of a big city is still not so possible in Russia.

[alon_68]

And the main difference is that the suburbians are wealthier that the inhabitant of downtown, while the inhabitants of "окраина", "пригороды" in Russia are regarded as poor half-villagers.

[oryx_and_crake]

the suburbians are wealthier that the inhabitant of downtown
---
Huh? I don't know where you live, but a condo in a Toronto downtown highrise can cost 3 times as much as a house in the suburbs.

[zarxos.livejournal.com]

Does this count as a suburb?

http://www.mnweekly.ru/estate/20071220/55298688.html

[thevoiceofnick.livejournal.com]

No matter what they were called, this is what the "suburbs" looked like in the Soviet Union:

[escritora.livejournal.com]

Область too. Or коттеджный поселок.
Пригород looks like город, but likeness does not mean that word пригород must be used above all things.

[blackdiver.livejournal.com]

little boxes, on the hill side...(c):)))

[scifigal.livejournal.com]

little boxes made of ticky tacky...

[blackdiver.livejournal.com]

:)))))))))))

[onodera.livejournal.com]

I've seen some magazines use «субурбия», but that was more of a description of the cultural spirit (or lack thereof) of American suburbs, not the suburbs themselves.
«Традиционные американские коттеджные посёлки» is probably the most accurate translation.