Imperative using the infinitive?

[david-us.livejournal.com]

I was watching Russian TV online today (Группа ЗЕТА?) and it seemed I was hearing the command "Молчать!" quite a bit. It was being used in the context of "Shut up!" I thought that the Russian imperative usage would be "Молчи!" And I have heard that more often in spoken Russian.

Also, in this show, I also heard the command "Стоять!" being used for "Stand up! or "Get up!"  I was expecting "Стой!"

Do Russians sometimes use the infinite form of a verb as an imperative? And, if so, does it have a different connotation? I'm guessing that "Молчать!" may be more like the English "Shut up!" (quite rude), whereas "Молчи!" may be more like the English "Be quiet!" (not so rude).

A teacher, trying to quiet down her students would not say "Молчать!", would she? She would say, "Молчите!" or "Тихо!"

Correct?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

Comments

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Yeah, the infinitive form is more impersonal and rude.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

"Партия скажет "Есть контакт!" значит будем есть контакт" =)
Imperative through infinitive is indeed more aggressive and rude than normal imperative. Also "Стоять!" is not used as "Stand up!" or "Get up!" it's "Freeze!" or sometimes "Who goes there?!".

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I forgot to mention even though imperative is more aggressive it still finds use even in official speech, for instance in Russian court of law they say: "Встать, суд идет!" as a command to stand up when the judges enter the room. Likewise most military commands will be using infinitive.

[oryx_and_crake]

As to military commands, I doubt that.
For example, I can name straightaway: "Стой!" (both in "Стой, кто идет?" and "Стой, раз-два" in marching exercises, "На первый-второй рассчитайсь!" or "Песню запевай!" However I cannot remember any in infinitive (maybe I am not all that familiar with military terminology).

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Say "Отдать швартовый!", "Принять шлюпку по правому борту!", "Поднять флаг!", "Опустить флаг!" etc. etc.

[oryx_and_crake]

That's rather naval than military, but I see your point.

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

It's "спустить флаг", not "опустить флаг", and "отдать швартовы", not "отдать швартовый".

[devitor.livejournal.com]

There are some military infinitive commands, though many of them are shortened to a single word for usability ("Нале-во!" instead of "Повернуться налево!", "На пле-чо!" instead of "Взять автомат на плечо!", "Вольно!" instead of "Встать вольно!"). Also ALL orders (written ones) use infinitive:
[Открыть] огонь!
Выдвинуться к населенному пункту такому-то.
Огонь вести на поражение.
Приказываю обеспечить сохранность грузов.
Разойдись!

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wwwera_/]

разойдись?

[devitor.livejournal.com]

This is a command that issued after briefing or "построение". Meaning, 'you all are free now/you may proceed to orders'

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wwwera_/]

yes, i know, but it is not infinitive :)) it's imperative, and the infinitive is разойТись

[devitor.livejournal.com]

Umm.... you're right :)

[http://users.livejournal.com/_wwwera_/]

:))

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Btw, FWIW, there's another, familiar and rude, form of giving commands:
- Пошел вон!
- Упал, отжался!
- Встал/поднялся! Ну?!
- Закрыл дверь! Кому говорю?!
- Быстро съел свой суп! Давай-давай, чтобы тарелка была пустой.

You basically use the verb in its perfective form in the past as if the desired action has already happened. You often say this angrily or loudly, although not always. If your authority is well established or the threat is obvious, you can say it quietly and calmly.

Sometimes you can express disgust or disdain with this. The first command would be a typical example here. In this case it's pronounced with a certain emphasis and without exclamation.

[creiz.livejournal.com]

Btw, just fyi: one can express an imperative using the 1st person pl. That's quite mild form of ordering, more like request even, but still it's an imperative.
"Предъявляем билеты".
"А теперь все встаем".
"Уважаемые пассажиры, проходим в салон".

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

Such use of 1st person pl. sounds like a colloquialism. I guess it has its roots in the desire of the person speaking not to distantiate himself/herself from the auditorium.

I would never advise a person wishing to speak normative Russian to use this form instead of real imperative ("предъявляйте билеты", "уважаемые пассажиры, проходите в салон").

[creiz.livejournal.com]

You two explained usage of this imperative form pretty nice. I'd like to add a couple of things though. Firstly, I'd say this form is akin to english "Do sth, would you?" in its spirit. And secondly, to understand some foreign language and to speak it are two different zip codes. The thing is, the former requires a lot more knowledge that the latter (even considering one aims to master the so-called normative form of language), including knowing widely-used colloquialisms. Just think: I know lots of different stuff such as English colloquialisms, slang, jargon, whatnot, which I'd never use talking to ppl, BUT... without knowling this kind of things how on earth am I supposed to understand what ppl are saying when watching some TV show (Everybody hates Chris, for striking example)? That's the point: the more you know, the better, even if it's not formally "normative" and you won't really use it yourself, but that doesn't change the fact others use it and you'll come upon it sometime anyway.

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

A teacher trying to quiet down her students would most probably say "тише!", i.e. politely and calmly ask them to be more quiet. "Тихо!" has almost the same meaning in such a situation, but it's implying that they are not quiet at all (unlike the previous case where it was implied that they are not quiet enough), so it's a bit more aggressive. "Замолчите!" would be a much more aggressive way to express the same thing, and it's more of an order and clearly shows the person is annoyed and/or angry. "Молчать!" is only used in very escalated situations, in open conflicts, in fights, etc. One would never use or hear that in any school or university.

The same is with other examples you were confused about. "Постой" or "погоди" is the most gentle way to stop a person, "стой!" is used to stop someone who's apparently not willing to stop or to stop someone immediately without a second of delay (like someone who's about to step on something bad). "Стоять!" is an explicit order that you can give to a trespasser if you're a military person guarding a passage with a gun in your hands (although "стой", "стой кто идёт" and "стой, стрелять буду" are more common calmer forms), or an order you can give to your dog (uncommon, mostly when you want to stop a dog you actually want it to sit down, hence "сидеть!"), or it can actually be used as a friendly joke.

Words like "замолчи" or "стой" can be said in quiet tone, meaning something like "oh come on, just shut up, I've heard that story before" and "hey wait a second", things like "молчать!" or "стоять!" are always expressive shouts.

Not all verbs can be used this way. "Стоять!", "молчать!", "поднять паруса!", "отдать швартовы!", "включить рацию!", "встать, суд идёт" and so forth sound perfectly Ok - however, one cannot say arbitrary things like "читать!", "петь!", "думать!", "платить!", it would just sound funny and not even always comprehensible.

As other commenters have already pointed out, there is another form of imperative sentences, the one that uses past tense ("замолчал!", "остановился!"). It is considerably rude and very intimidating, as it kind of implies that you not only heard the command, but already obeyed it, leaving no place for decision making. It is used only in spoken language. Interestingly enough, as intimidation and authority do not necessarily mean conflict, a teacher can occasionally use that. Example: "открыли учебники на странице 100" - it does not mean that everyone has already opened the books, it means that even if someone didn't, it is necessary to do it right now because the teacher cannot proceed without that.

[david-us.livejournal.com]

In this rather silly video, it seems that the past tense version of the imperative is used a couple times.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihELONDDSvE&NR=1

Подошла! и Села!

Am I correct in assuming that this would be considered rather harsh language?

David Emerling
Memphis, TN

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

Yes, that is correct. The play shows a stereotypical bad school teacher who is extremely rude, not really competent, and is an older ugly woman with a complicated name.

There are more examples in the video. For instance, when a pupil doesn't want to come, she says "ну а можно я не буду сегодня...?", the "teacher" replies "нет, не можно!". A polite version would've been "нет, нельзя", "не можно" is mocking.

I won't comment on the last sentence, though ;)