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[upthera44.livejournal.com]

A few new questions for the esteemed community: 

1. Could you talk a bit about the differences between "и пр. (прочее)" and  "и.т.д."? Are they pretty much direct equivalents of "and so on" and "etc."? Any differences in meaning or style?

2. I heard someone say in a film "без всякой глупости" or something to that effect. Can you use "без всякой XXX " as an equivalent to our English phrase "without any sort of XXX"?  For instance can you then say "без всякой проблемы", "без всякой наркотики", etc?

3. I've heard Russians say the phrase  "всякие разные" a few times-- it seems to just mean "various" but really emphasizes how various or random something is. Yea?


4. How widely used are the following terms (most of which seem to be slang terms) and is there anything one should know when using them: нарасхват, халявщик, мещок, сачок

Thanks

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

1. Yes, they are pretty close to "and so on". Please note that in "и т.д." you don't need a period after "и" because it is a complete word, not shortened.

2. As всякий is an adjective, it should agree in number and gender. So, yes, you can use it with practically any noun, and no, you cannot say "без всякой наркотики" - it should be "безо всяких наркотиков".

3. "всякие разные" is indeed equivalent to "various" but it is colloquial.

4. It is мешок, not мещок. Yes, they are widely used. Except for мешок which is a neutral word (unless you use it metaphorically) all the others are colloquial. Мешок can mean just a bag (of anything) or it can mean a clumsy, not very fit person.

[upthera44.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the good response, very helpful. About мешок -- maybe it is a new slang meaning, or just used among very young people, but it now also means a person who doesn't like to go out of their home-- a homebody.

[oryx_and_crake]

It is not necessarily slang (unless someone directly tells you that it is). I can well imagine someone saying "Он такой мешок, все бы ему на диване лежать." It is just a metaphor.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Could be indeed "мещок", shortened from "мещанин" because last time I've heard "мешок" it was Muscovite for people coming to shop from outside the city.

[oryx_and_crake]

"мешок" it was Muscovite for people coming to shop from outside the city
--
That was probably "мешочник".
"мещок" as a short form of мещанин seems highly unlikely. The very word мещанин is completely outdated (and anyway мещанин is not someone who likes to stay at home).

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Thank you, but I can tell difference between мешок and мешочник, both were used and neither means somebody who likes to stay at home. Though I can see how "мещанин" can be interpreted as this if staying home is opposed to going clubbing or shopping or whatever teenagers do nowadays.

[oryx_and_crake]

Did I say мешочник meant someone who likes to stay at home?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Did I say you did?

[oryx_and_crake]

Well, since you found it necessary to explain to me that "and neither means somebody who likes to stay at home"...

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

And?

[oryx_and_crake]

this implies that I asserted otherwise

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

No. It only implies what is written - "мешок" as in 'sack' is unlikely to mean somebody who likes to stay at home while "мещ(ш)ок" derived from 'мещанин' is likely to mean somebody who likes to sty at home. On a side note I find it bizarre that you are constantly looking for a fight and are seeing things. Rest assured that I could not care less about you and don't want to fight you in any way or form so please relax.

[old-radist.livejournal.com]

"мещанин" is not likely to mean somebody who likes to stay at home.

"мешок" is not and can not be derived from "мещанин".

"мещок" is not likely to mean somebody who likes to stay at home. There is no word in Russian with an "o" after "щ" at all, quite sure.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

There is no word in Russian with an "o" after "щ" at all, quite sure.

Probably as sure as about your other points?
Борщок, общо, трещотка etc. ring any bells?

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. Please note the extra "o" - "безо всяких". It is added to ease the pronunciation, as "звс" is pretty hard to pronounce.

[inoctiluci.livejournal.com]

does "всякий" have a negative connotation, or is it neutral?

[pzrk.livejournal.com]

neutral, colloquial

[oryx_and_crake]

depends on context.

Всякий учащийся обязан... is neutral, but "ходят тут всякие..." is definitely negative.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

It very well may in this particular case of всякий разный. "К ней ходят всякие разные" may mean that she's a whore and various men visit her, or it could be that those people look or act strange or suspicious and probably aren't up to anything good. "всякие разные" may emphasize the speaker's indifference or disregard towards the things/people.

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

"и т.д." is an equivalent of "and so on" and "etc."
"и пр." means "and others"
You can write "один, два и т.д", but you cannot "один, два и пр."
You can write "Маша, Петя и пр." but you cannot "Маша, Петя и т.д."

[oryx_and_crake]

"и пр." can also mean "и прочее", which is pretty close to "и так далее". So, I don't completely agree with this point.

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

"и пр." can only mean "и прочее".
"и так далее" and "и прочее" are close, but not exactly the same.

"и так далее" implies some logical sequence that the reader can continue.
"и прочее" implies objects/persons similar to the objects/persons before "и прочее".
Of course, there are examples where the both phrases can be used.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I'd say "и пр." is close to 'etc' and "и т.д." to 'and so on'. Usually you see "и т.д. и т.п." - "и так далее, и тому подобное" which is a form as same as "and so on and so forth". "И пр." is kinda rare, frankly I can only remember it's being used in Russian Emperor's title even though it literally stands for the same as "etc" (et cetera = and the rest) it does not work well with the Russian language and is used, I believe, mostly to translate 'etc'.

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

You don't often say "без всяких" in Russian though. "Без" suffices in most cases, for example, "без хуйни". :)

[oryx_and_crake]

When you use obscene language, please warn people about this so they don't get into an awkward situation as a result of this advice.