Cultural Question

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

This is more of a cultural question, but I figured this is a great place to ask:

How do you say "engaged" as in "engaged to be married" (as opposed to Picard saying "Engage!" :P) My dictionary is failing me on that.

Do Russians do engagement? What about engagement and wedding rings? I was in Russia last summer and I did not notice many grown women with rings on their hands period, much less the younger ones. I figured the traditions must be different, but how are they?

Спасибо! :)

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

to be engaged to be married - обручиться, они обручены
No, I don't think people do formal engagement these days. Probably the most frequently used phrase will be "Они собираются пожениться".
Please note that the Russian phrase for wedding ring - обручальное кольцо - literally means an engagement ring. I don't think people in Russia have engagement rings as such, as opposed to wedding rings, i.e. the ones marking engagement rather than wedding. (Things may have changed in the last few years though.)

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

No, nothing has changed lately. There is no formal engagement here and so no engagement rings.

There is also another word for engagement - помолвка (also они помолвлены = they are engaged), but nowadays it is only used in historical context.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

Spasibo :)

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

or "помолвлен" (помолвка)
according to our russian facebook site (vkontakte.ru), 242070 people are currently engaged (out of 12 million).

[fiachasorcha.livejournal.com]

I have a quick question about the verb обручуться - it was used in a play I performed in (Ревизор), so I assume it was perhaps more common pre-soviet union?

[oryx_and_crake]

обручАться, not обручуться
as people noted in this discussion, the very institute of engagement is rather pre-Soviet union

[germaniac-z.livejournal.com]

but up there you wrote обручИться, is it обручаться or обручиться?

[oryx_and_crake]

could be either, depending on your meaning

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

we sometimes also say

помолвлены

about the people who are engaged,
and помолвка for engagement
but it's rather archaic

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

That is good to know, thank you :)

Soory fro clumsy English.

[natha1ie.livejournal.com]

To be engaged - быть помолвленными.
It's not in a russian tradition to be engaged. Usually a couple exchanges by rings during wedding ceremony. Generally there're no engagement rings in Russia.
A wife and a husband after being married ware their rings on the forth finger of a right arm.

[avatarakali.livejournal.com]

it depends on religion and beliefs of particular couple.
There are many religions practiced in Russia plus atheist people - each type would have their own approach.

But in general - no, usually there is no such thing as "Engagement", if there is - it's more like borrowed from West and Holliwood movies recently :)

People who deside to get married usually just start preparations straighaway, maybe there would be some special gifts to each other, but it doesn't have to be a ring, it may be some other sugnificant gift, or no gift :) and certainly there is no rule regardling the size of stone or type of stone etc.

There are wedding rings - a couple would put them on either during the registration ceremony in local Registration office (ZAGS :) ), or during the religious ceremony, which is often a Russian Orthodox wedding ceremony.

According to Russian Orthodox Church traditions (nothing hardcore written, but traditions) the concept of Engagement as such doesn't make scence - the religion supposes that either these people are together as husband and wife or they are not. That's why the wedding rings, which are in Russian language actually called "engagement rings", both, are put on the fingers of bride and groom during the wedding ceremony itself.
Most likely the tradition of not having engagement as such and having only wedding rings comes from that and maybe from the many years of Soviet Times traditions :)

Earlier, many years ago, when there were traditions of arranged marriage, the engagement ring could exist and could be put on when familyies would have taken the desision of arranging such marriage.

The wedding ring is usually kept on right hand.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

Thank you for the explanation. That makes a lot of sense to me.

[avatarakali.livejournal.com]

welcome :)

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

Обручение (engagement with ring exchange) in the Church (http://www.pravoslavie.ru/put/060501124410) now is a ceremony directly before wedding. In secular ceremony ring exchange seems to be an obligatory element (maybe someone who has seen it would answer better).
Also, many Russian women and girls wear rings just as a decoration.

[chantfleuri.livejournal.com]

"обручены" or "помолвлены" is ok, I think.
Picard's 'engage' is closer to "вперед!" or "поехали!"

[http://users.livejournal.com/_christine/]

Thank you :)

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

Guys, what about ceremony known as "сватовство"?
Isn't it really close to "engagement"?
It's still popular in Russia, especially in country side.

[dimal0.livejournal.com]

It is absolutely different. сватовство = matchmaking.

[abiura.livejournal.com]

It's is very old tradition. Many many years ago when a young man was deeply in love with a girl and wanted to marry her he asked his friends, his father, or friends of his father to go with him (yes, never alone) to the house of this girl and ask the permission of her father to marry him. And in Russian this "crowd" of man is called "сватья". This is plural form. and one man is called "сват".
And as far as I know also many many yers ago if the girl wasn't agree to marry this boy she took water melon and gave it to the boy. That was the sign for him that he can go to hell ;)

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

Funny custom ) I haven't heard of water melon )

[abiura.livejournal.com]

well, there is a russian film called "maksim perepelitsa". And one episode is devoted to it. But may be it is more ukranian....

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Engagement in Russian is обручение, it's a formal ritual performed in church (probably there are secular equivalents). Many people are confused though because since the end of 18th century Russian Orthodox Church only served engagements immediately before wedding and only performed separate engagements for the royal family so many people don't see the difference between the engagement and the matrimony. Also the fact that in USSR secular service (the only one available for 70 years) bride and groom exchanged rings added more to the confusion. In the clerical service there are no wedding rings and thus wedding ring in Russian is still "обручальное кольцо"-"engagement ring".