(no subject)

[upthera44.livejournal.com]

Two in a row for me...

Why in the masculine is it быть одному (as in "мне нравится быть одному")? Usually after быть either nominative or instrumental cases are used-- in which case it would be быть один or быть одним.

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

It's probably because одному agrees with мне

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

not sure this will make an explanation, but here's my thoughts

we usually use "быть один" as a compound predicate

e.g.
"я не люблю быть один"

but we say "трудно быть одному" for ex. in impersonal sentences when you can easily left out "быть" and you'll get "трудно (*кому*) одному"
as for "быть одним" you can use it only for plural as in
"детям нельзя быть одним" - another example of impersonal sentence, similar to "быть одному" for singular masculine

hope that helps ))

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Don't ask why. It just is! The case system is full of little quirks.

I think (not sure) it's really the instrumental, but a special “short” form of it. Rissian adjectives have a long ana a short form (long красный, instr. красным; short красен, instr. красну). "Один" is formally a short-form adjective too.

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

well, "один" is not an adjective at all, but a numeral

I really think the reason is the structure of the sentence as a whole, depending on what is subject and predicate

[thespinningone.livejournal.com]

i guess it has something to do with personal/impersonal sentences too.
because we can say "Я не люблю быть один" - but "Мне не нравится быть одному"..
dammit, never thought how weird it is))

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

for instance: "мне (одному) с этим не справиться"
"мне (одному) не нравится быть/существовать"
so "одному" actually corresponds with "мне"

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Don't you see the pattern -- case agreement? "Я один - мне одному"

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Definitely -- case agreement works: я был один, мне пришлось быть одному

[thespinningone.livejournal.com]

of course i do! i've just never reflected upon it)

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Well, "одному" here is not a noun (numeral?) "один" in dative case, it's an adverb from the sequence: "одному", "вдвоем", "втроем", "вчетвером" etc there is probably some special name for these words in English but I don't know any English equivalents for them, there is just "alone" but no such words for other numbers.

[yozhevich.livejournal.com]

Another example with accusative: "Она его посадила одного", meaning she separated him from the others or put him in time out.

[inoctiluci.livejournal.com]

Thank you for asking this! I wouldn't have thought to, but the answers have been very helpful for me.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

and also a pronoun:
Один хочет учиться, а другой - веселиться.
Трое в лодке...

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

Это Вы со знанием дела говорите?
I'm not a philologist, but I always thought that in these examples "Один" though being a subject, still remains numeral.
Perhaps i'm wrong?

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Neither am I. But the word has several functions, one of which is to represent an object (or subject) as whole and not just some characteristic of it (for which adjectives and numerals are normally used). Since it's not a proper name and doesn't look like a noun (один may refer to a person, an animal, an inanimate object, pretty much anything), it's gotta be a pronoun (just like он). It's very similar to possessive pronouns such as мой since the same word can be used alone and as sort of description, e.g.: мой (+ optional дом) большой, нам встретился один (+ optional человек) по пути. Maybe these are not the best examples and require some context, but that's how they work. Finally, I see один listed as an indefinite pronoun similar to какой-то, некий, некоторый in several places, including gramota.ru's "толково-образовательный" dictionary (http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%EE%E4%E8%ED&all=x&lop=x&gorb=x&efr=x&zar=x&ag=x&ab=x&sin=x&lv=x&az=x&pe=x).

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

this weird mixture of russian and english characters is really making me mad )))


As for "один" i can agree with you, but трое and so on... i don't know.

I think i need to ask my former teacher of russian ^))

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Собралось пятяро. Пока двое курили на балконе трое решили выпить. :)
Пятеро, двое and трое are all functioning as pronouns in these sentences.

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

i understood your examples,, i'm just not sure that "functioning as pronoun" and being a pronoun is quite the same.

That was so long ago)

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

there are, you know, different schools of thought
http://www.google.com/search?q=%22%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BB%D0%B0%D0%B3%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5+%D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%22

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

"One" is special in other languages too, in English it even mutated into the indefinite article. "Одному" has properties of an adverb yet it's inflected for gender and case, Ojigov says it's an adjective and numeral but not an adverb but it does not explain how "быть одному" will become "быть вдвоем/втроем/вчетвером" if you try to increase the number of people - вдвоем etc. is indeed an adverb so одному has to be one as well yet formally it does not seem to be one.

[3dimka.livejournal.com]

мне нравится быть одним - i like to be the one
мне нравится быть одному - i like to be the alone

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

We don't use nominative case in such construction because of remnants of ergative system in Russian language. Some linguists think that ergative language system (where the sentence is built around patiens) is more ancient, and many modern languages employ nominative system (sentence is built around agens). Since in modern Russian language there's no ergative case, we use objective cases instead.

[engimono.livejournal.com]

I agree with zauberer, it looks like remnants of some older system.
There is no logic of agreement between мне and одному in this case in modern Russian, because in мне нравится быть хорошим/добрым/злым etc. it's not the same agreement.
So, I would take it as an exception. It's just an accepted way of saying.