Time Expressions

[dezelina.livejournal.com]

Hi Everyone,

I should probably know all of this, but I don't...so I apologize.  Russian time expressions are the death of me!  How do I say:

At about 2:00
In 2 hours
By 2:00
2 Hours Before

Thanks in advance for your help :)

Comments

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, English time expressions are the death for me, so I can only hope I got you right--

Примерно в два [часа] ("часа" can be omitted)
Через два часа
К двум [часам] OR, more likely, в два [часа] (we gotta be there by 2:00 = мы должны быть там в два; by 2:00 there was no one left - к двум часам там никого уже не было).
Два часа назад (as in "it happened 2 hrs before") OR за два часа до... (as in "two hours before sunrise" - за два часа до рассвета)

[dimal0.livejournal.com]

We think about the time in different way :D
At about 2:00 = Около 2-х
In 2 hours = Через 2 часа
By 2:00 = К 2-м
2 Hours Before = 2 часа назад

[oryx_and_crake]

please do not write "2-х", "к 2-м" - it is a grave mistake.

[liley.livejournal.com]

I think almost all Russians write like this.

[oryx_and_crake]

1. They don't (not all of them)
2. Even if a lot of people does that, it's ungrammatical (a lot of people also write "вообщем" or "база даных", but that does not mean that either of these spellings is correct).

[oryx_and_crake]

Exactly. P.3 describes the situation we are discussing.

[oryx_and_crake]

I did not have to qualify (did you mean clarify?) anything. The cases we discussed (двух часов, к двум часам) are not ordinal numbers.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Language "errors" are hardly grave.

[oryx_and_crake]

1. People come here for studying language, don't they?
2. The errors in language can be categorized according to their "graveness".
3. Therefore, some language errors can be grave.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

But what, exactly, is so grave about use of language that doesn't follow the norm? Sure people are coming here to learn Russian (usually the standard variety), but there's no reason to not be exposed to things like "2-м" instead of "2"/"двум" or "щас" for "сейчас". In fact, I would argue there's a need to be exposed to such things. Obviously these uses are out there in the real world, and if you study Russian long enough you'll encounter them. So, isn't it better to be introduced to them in a context like this? Where people can explain what it means and why they wrote it in such a way? And it's not like you'd have to worry they'll be learning the "wrong" way of saying/writing something. Most people here respond with the socially-accepted standard Russian. The people who come here to learn should be able to figure out, through either deduction, or our explanations, which is "correct" and which are colloquial or marked and use them accordingly.

[oryx_and_crake]

So, isn't it better to be introduced to them in a context like this?
---
Certainly not if these errors are introduced as correct language. It's OK to learn slang, but this is not even slang. It is illiteracy pure and simple. When you study a language, would you want to sound like an illiterate slob or like an educated person in this language? Of course you may choose to sound like the former (and it is your right), but at least you should know what you are doing and be able to choose either mode of speech (as opposed to sounding like a mentally retarded person just because you don't know any better).

So, in a nutshell, I have no problem with people presenting slang here (as long as they indicate it as such), but I do have problems with illiterate people who make grammar mistakes. (And no, I don't mean язык падонкаф because there is a huge difference between people using it and people who just cannot spell.)

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

I think you're confusing "correct" and "standard" here. For the person who wrote the words/phrases, they are correct, even though they many not be the standard. And your characterization of uneducated people as "illiterate slobs" is downright offensive. Just because someone doesn't use the same variety of a language as what is considered standard does not, in any way, mean they are not educated. It simply means they learned or chose a different way of expressing a concept.

[oryx_and_crake]

For the person who wrote the words/phrases, they are correct
---
It does not mean they ARE correct. Sorry, I cannot agree with you on any of the above. There are well-defined language norms and if someone breaks them it means he is illiterate and should not try to teach people, end of story.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Again, I think we're at an impasse on the issue of "correct" and "standard". So, you're right: end of story. Have fun in your ivory tower.

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. Just a simple example. A lot of people (native English speakers, at that) spell "weird" and "receive" as "wierd" and "recieve". Those are not "uses that are there in the real world" and they are not legitimate alternatives to the mainstream version. They are just spelling errors and should be treated as such, i.e. you should not teach them to language learners (unless you want to demonstrate some common spelling errors that should be avoided).

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

"2-м" is not a spelling mistake. It's a re-analyzation of the system used for writing ordinal numbers applied to cardinal numbers.

So, I agree with you on spelling mistakes. The seed example however, was not one.

[oryx_and_crake]

It was. Please read Rosenthal if you don't believe me.

[liley.livejournal.com]

Rosenthal is a REALLY OLD book; and Russian grammar rules are very old. They were established in the fifties.
Russian language needs a great reform to be closer to the real life.
People can't speak and write the way classic authors did. (And almost nobody does)
You'll just be considered a snob if you use "correct" language outside The State Academy of Sciences.

[oryx_and_crake]

I am sorry but here in this community we are trying to help people learn language. They can learn slang, too, but only after they learn what's correct. And whatever you say, Rosenthal is still a de-facto standard. I don't know what you mean by "getting closer to the real life", but, judging by their literacy (or lack thereof), 90% people in the Runet are brain-dead already.

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

it's neither slang nor a grave mistake.
it's just how we write in Russian and if you want non-natives to learn real/proper Russian you'll have to take it for granted.
http://www.artlebedev.ru/ (they devote a great deal of attention to the modern Russian language) says:
"Рады видеть 53 099 164-го посетителя"

[oryx_and_crake]

Actually, the example you give here is perfectly correct. But the one we discussed before is not. Please re-read the link danil_ognok gave above, it might help you understand. (If you don't know the difference between количественные and порядковые числительные, please ask me, and I'll explain it to you.)

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

oh sorry, I thought you were talking about the use of endings in general... anyway, I still happen to be of the belief there's nothing wrong with them. :)

[oryx_and_crake]

Well, I, arno1251, Rosenthal and a few million of other people happen to disagree.

[oryx_and_crake]

Sorry. I'll try to avoid this mistake in future.

[tlkh.livejournal.com]

As for me, the text like "Около 2" and especially "К 2" look definitely wrong or at least hard to read.
"Около 2 часов" и "К 2 часам" are ok.

[oryx_and_crake]

"Около 2" and "К 2" look bad for me, too. "около двух", "к двум" looks much better.

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Примерно в два часа (ночи, if you mean a.m/ дня, if it is p.m.)
Через два часа
К двум часам (ночи/дня)
Двумя часами ранее

[oryx_and_crake]

in 2 hours can also be "за два часа" (e.g. it took us 2 hours to get there - мы доехали туда за два часа)

For "at about 2:00" - часа в два is also used (that's somewhat colloquial, as opposed to около двух which is neutral)

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

your example sounds strange to me... it must be an example of something else

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

- Около двух (часов)
- Через 2 часа, через пару часиков (but in fact the last doesn't mean "in 2 hours" exactly :))
- До двух (часов), к двум (часам)
- За 2 часа (до), 2 часа назад

It's impossible to understand. Just remember :)

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

"примерно в два" is better than "около двух" (to differentiate it from just "about 2 o'clock").

2 hours before can also be translated as "за два часа [до чего-либо]"
or as in the example below:
"the hour before dawn" - час до рассвета, час перед рассветом

[oryx_and_crake]

"примерно в два" is better than "около двух" (to differentiate it from just "about 2 o'clock").
---
Excuse me? Could you please explain exactly why "примерно в два" is better than "около двух" and which of them should be differentiated from "about 2 o'clock"?

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

well, not better but more accurate
"at about 2" literally = "в примерно 2"
"about 2" = "около 2"

[oryx_and_crake]

"at about 2" literally = "в примерно 2"
--
What does literal translation have to do with anything?

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

it doesn't have to do with anything. it's only to show that prepositions shouldn't probably get lost in the translation. in the English language they use both "at about 2" and "about 2" as time expressions so I was just trying to point it out and provide a more accurate translation since those expressions can be differenciated in Russian as well.

[oryx_and_crake]

it's only to show that prepositions shouldn't probably get lost in the translation
----
This is completely wrong. Word by word translation never works and cannot be a proof for anything. There is no direct correlation between Russian prepositions and English prepositions and you should not even try to preserve them in translation, this just does not make sense.

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

i never said there were any collerations... it all might well be so. i just say what I feel is true in this particular case.

[eugenetersky.livejournal.com]

and "2 hours before" doesn't seem to mean "2 часа назад". it would be "2 hours ago" then

[bluejinn.livejournal.com]

At about 2:00 - около двух
In 2 hours - за 2 часа
By 2:00 - к двум часам
2 Hours Before - двумя часами ранее

[pzrk.livejournal.com]

"около двух [часов]"; be warned - if you mean 14:00, use "днем, часа в два"
"в течение дух часов"
"к двум часам" (e.g. "к двум часам я запущу сервер и можно будет заполнять базу данных")
"за два часа до ..."