May your ground be like fluff??

[defying-elphaba.livejournal.com]

I just have a question about this saying Russian people have when someone dies. I think it goes something like "May your ground be like fluff"?? I just want to know what it means, and why people say that. I don't understand why the big focus on the burial ground; isn't it the soul that matters now? It just seems so morbid. Or did this saying come about due to the prevalence of atheism in Russia?

I just don't understand, why wish somebody fluffy ground, as if it makes any difference...

Comments

[agvares.livejournal.com]

by the way, i dont understand it either)

[edricson.livejournal.com]

Well, it essentially means "rest in peace", which isn't about the soul either.

[defying-elphaba.livejournal.com]

I don't know, "Rest In Peace" just doesn't sound as morbid to me..

[edricson.livejournal.com]

Probably because you're used to it, just as Russian speakers don't think too much about the literal meaning of the cliche.

[agvares.livejournal.com]

http://otvet.mail.ru/question/6226402/ - here you can find other interesting version. but it doesnt go with church's opinion

[toh-rus.livejournal.com]

"Here lies Billy Brown, Lost at sea and never found"
notice "here lies" part.
We just wish he will lie in soft fluff.

[olesia88.livejournal.com]

This phrase is really very common in Russia. When we say that it means we wish to a death person good being in another world.

[defying-elphaba.livejournal.com]

Really? So when you say that, it doesn't mean that you think they're dead and that's it, no afterlife?

[ptichka-fox.livejournal.com]

Really. :)

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

It's just the same as RIP. Nothing more than that. And it's much older than atheism in Russia.

[olesia88.livejournal.com]

+1

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

I disagree, "RIP" is something you say in an obituary and write on a grave, "земля пухом" is something you are supposed to say every time when you are talking about a dead person to protect yourself from them haunting you.

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

You are supposed to say "царство ему (ей) небесное" when you are talking about a dead person. Isn't it?

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Correct, you can also say that. The purpose is the same: you say these phrases to apiece the dead every time after you've mentioned their name.

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

I know that "земля пухом" is used in the conversation at the first mention of the dead. Just to let interlocutor know that the person is actually dead. And the interlocutor is supposed to say: "Да ты (вы) что! Какое горе!". And then "Царство небесное" is used instead. That's what I know.

[defying-elphaba.livejournal.com]

See, "царство ему (ей) небесное" makes sense... but now I'm confused how can those two phrases be used interchangeably?? The impression that I got, was that atheists say "Пусть земля тебе будет пухом" and believers say "царство ему (ей) небесное". Or am I wrong?

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

> I'm confused how can those two phrases be used interchangeably?

But they are.

> The impression that I got, was that atheists say "Пусть земля тебе будет пухом" and believers say "царство ему (ей) небесное".

You are wrong. "Пусть земля тебе будет пухом" is rather old saying, maybe as old as "царство ему (ей) небесное", and it cannot be referred to atheists.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

This custom stems from the belief that calling a name of a supernatural being summons it to the speaker. Dead people, especially relatives, were considered still active supernatural entities in the original Russian culture. Thus if you called a dead person you had to apiece them somehow and these two phrases serve the same purpose. In this case the speaker does not really care where and how exactly the dead stays away from him: either sleeps in the ground or on the Buhdda's lap - it does not matter. Of course people don't believe this any more but it remains as a figure of speech and nowadays it's often reduced just to the first time you hear about a particular death.

[la-sincerite.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, that's the point. To say correctly, we say "земля пухом" before 40 days after the death, and "царство небесное" - after. Orthodoxians think that a man's soul leaves the Earth just after 40 days after death.

[krivoshey.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right but it seems that this border became obliterated in the course of time.

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

Death is poetically interpreted like sleeping or dream.
So wishing "fluffing ground" is something like wishing convenient bed for dead person ever lasting sleeping.
Not less, not more. Of course, people mean that they're behave in such way that dead person may be sure that all his\her earth deals \ deeds go well.
Looking deeper, Russians were always afraid of bothered deads. If something goes wrong with dead man earth business he may arise and punish those who are in charge. So "fluffy ground", "rest in peace" and "sleep quietly" are wishes which should protect alive people from their dead friend.

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

The reason it's always seemed strange to me is, no matter how soft the earth, you're still in a coffin.

Otherwise, "fluff" is a synecdoche for a featherbed, and the whole thing's just a way of saying "may your death be like (peaceful) sleep".

[skogens-kjole.livejournal.com]

It's a common phrase like RIP, it may make sense taking into account afterlife or smth like that (since one doesn't die but falls asleep)
I guess it's close to the Latin Sit tibi terra levis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_tibi_terra_levis)

[mytza.livejournal.com]

It seems to be close to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sit_tibi_terra_levis

[icedink.livejournal.com]

I'm not familiar with this expression: can someone please provide the original Russian?

[liley.livejournal.com]

Пусть земля тебе будет пухом!

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

Ты бы хоть в кавычки поставил, что ли, а то девушка жива ещё )))

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

It's not "your" it's "their", you don't usually talk to the dead people. And it's also not "like" it's just "be" so the real saying is "(let) the burial ground be fluff (for them)" and as it's been explained above it means "let the ground be their sleeping bed" and "fluff" implies a top quality sleeping or in other words "let them rest comfortably".

[oryx_and_crake]

you don't usually talk to the dead people
--
I don't agree. "Спи спокойно, дорогой товарищ. Да будет тебе земля пухом" is quite a standard thing for an eulogy.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/usually

[oryx_and_crake]

Nevertheless, this phrase (пусть земля ТЕБЕ ...) is legitimate

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

It is indeed.

[pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com]

It's never translated (http://www.multitran.ru/c/m.exe?a=phr&s=%E7%E5%EC%EB%FF%20%EF%F3%F5%EE%EC&l1=2&l2=1) literally, it looks like.

Still, I'd phrase it rather as "may ground for you be like fluff", if I had to. The person, or at least his shell, is quite often buried.
In regards to the soul you mentioned, the sould is quite a mystery and irreligious people won't throw wishes of heavens glory or whatever else. Soul or not, you or someone else did see the person away by burying the remains.

Vikings used to burn their killed comrades, they wouldn't wish fluffy grounds. Neither would they fully agree with let's say christian life and death philosophy. But wouldn't they wish something about their Valhalla, perhaps?
These're all just matters of expressing your feelings, not confronting or displaying your religious or other views.

Imagine: "— Oh, I do hope, Jesus Christ takes good care for him! — He was muslim. —... ·_·'" With a bit of work, that would make a sort of C&H (http://www.explosm.net/comics/new/) stripe.

My understanding

[merindada.livejournal.com]

As for me, to understand the difference we can look at the way the Russian treat the dead and the English, e.g.
Here, in Russia we pay great attention to all these material things - the decoration of the graves, tombs, fence arround and so on...
And in Europe i suppose there isn't such a pomposity towards their graves.
Maybe, that's why we tend to use expression where we wish smth for material peace rather than for spiritual...
These are only my thoughts.

[max-i-moose.livejournal.com]

You will probably be even more amazed that there is another related phrase. Unlike the one you asked about, it is extremely negative and goes "May the earth be a stake for him/her" ("Пусть земля ему (ей) будет колом!", which is often shortened to "Земля ему (ей) колом!").

As for the origin of these phrases, I would say it has to do with our pagan roots, not with the few decades of atheism. As well you know, in many pagan cultures the experiences of a man's soul after death were deemed to be closely connected with the condition of his or her body.

[engimono.livejournal.com]

Well, try to look at it literally:
The person is in the ground, so we wish that ground to be soft for the person.
Makes sense, doesn't it? :-)

Of course, it has nothing to do with soviet atheism.

[zeqfreed.livejournal.com]

I believe there's a widely adpoted explanation of what happens to the body and the soul of a human after his death. The soul is said to stay inside the corpse for 40 days and only then finally leave it. Considering this, people should wish a dead person 'fluff-like ground' if it hasn't been 40 days after he had passed away (i.e. his soul is still in the ground and you want it to be as comfortable as it can be) and 'resting in the kingdom of heaven' if it has.