(no subject)

[upthera44.livejournal.com]

I often want to ask questions regarding bus routes in Russia, but never know how to say it properly. It seems that people say "Пятнадцатый автобус ИДЁТ куда-то?" when asking where a bus goes in general. Is this right? I would expect "Пятнадцатый автобус ХОДИТ куда-то?" since we're speaking generally and not about a specific bus going to a specific place right now, but then again if it were strictly logical I would expect ездить / ехать  and not идти / ходить. Can someone explain this a bit?

Also what about these phrases: 

"Did the Xth bus already come?" 
"Do you know if Xth bus comes here?"
"Will the Xth bus come soon?"

Thanks

Comments

[polyarnik.livejournal.com]

You're right about автобус ИДЁТ, seems to be more commonly used. Probably, because this is the way they announce stops?

Вы не подскажете, автобус # ещё не подходил?
Вы не подскажете, автобус # тут останавливается?
Вы не подскажете, когда (or как скоро) подойдёт автобус #?

[polyarnik.livejournal.com]

Also, автобус ИДЁТ is more appropriate when you ask if the bus goes somewhere. When you say, that bus runs between A & B, ХОДИТ is the word to use.

More formal way of "автобус # тут останавливается?" is "останавливается ли тут автобус #?"

[crianza.livejournal.com]

"Вы не подскажете, когда (or как скоро) подойдёт автобус #?" is a nice question, but it will be too hard to find anyone, who knows the answer :)))

[khathi.livejournal.com]

"Пятнадцатый автобус идёт куда-то" -- "Does bus #15 go to somewhere" in the sense of one particular stop, not in general.
"Пятнадцатый автобус ходит куда-то" -- is used when you want to generally inquire about #15 route, and expect that your guess would be corrected or clarified.

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

I'd say "автобус идёт ДО" smth. E. g., "Пятнадцатый автобус идёт до площади Гагарина"? Or you might say "останавливается": "Автобус останавливается возле/у площади Гагарина?" "Ходит" is used when you want to ask if the bus goes between A and B: "Пятнадцатый автобус ходит между А и Б?"

The phrases:
Скажите, пожалуйста, автобус уже приходил?
Вы не знаете, автобус здесь останавливается?
Вы не знаете, автобус скоро придёт?

[ksushis.livejournal.com]

Sometimes you can say "Пятнадцатый автобус идёт В ...", i.e.
- Пятнадцатый автобус идёт В парк - bus #15 goes to the depot
- Пятнадцатый автобус идёт В Сормово - bus #15 goes to Sormovo (where "Sormovo" is the district of the city)
In this can I'd say you use "В" to point general direction without specifics. If you want to ask if the bus goes to a specific point you use "ДО". For example, if you want to get to Gagarin square (on bus #15) you can ask:
-Пятнадцатый автобус идёт до площади Гагарина?

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

[corrected]

I think this is a general question about the Russian verbs of motion. To choose the right form (perfective or imperfective) one needs to consider a few things:

1. Whether the movement is in one direction
2. Whether the movement is happening only once

If both answers to the above questions are yes, than the form to use is the perfective. Otherwise it's imperfective.

Examples:

Маша идёт (perf) в магазин. <-- happens once (right now), in one direction.

Маша ходит (imperf) в школу каждый день. <-- happens more than once (regularly).

Маша бегает (imperf) в парке. <-- no particular direction of movement exist, likely happens more than once.

Маша вчера ходила (imperf) в гости. <-- round trip/multiple directions (went there and then back).

When talking about an action in general, imperfective is used:
Ваш ребёнок уже ходит (imperf)?


In your particular case, you'd use ходит if you were asking in general if the bus goes to some place. That would also imply if it goes there regularly, more than once and very likely is coming back. Those all things suggest the imperfective.

However, when you're standing at the bus stop and the bus has just arrived and you're unsure if you should take it to get to your destination before it's too late or not, then you should use идёт because for you the most important thing at that moment is to get to the destination and therefore the action is considered one-time (now) and the direction is known/implied (towards that destination).

There're, of course, other special cases that tell us which form of the verb to use. For example, if you want to emphasize the process of the action or the action does not have any result (or you don't want to talk about the result even if there is one), then it's imperfective. If you want to emphasize the result, then it's perfective:

Я долго гулял (imperf) в парке. <-- describes a process: for a long time; no result.

Я погулял (perf) в парке. <-- describes a completed action; result = completion: I'm not walking in the park (anymore) and I could've come home already.

Я быстро погулял (perf) в парке. <-- быстро turns the action into a quick/momentarily action, which isn't quite a process anymore; result = completion. But watch the next one:

Я НЕдолго гулял (imperf) в парке. <-- still describes a process: for a little while; no result.

Я жил (imperf) в этом доме. <-- open-ended process w/o any result. However, in this particular example it may be implied that I don't live there anymore.

Я жил (imperf) в этом доме 5/много лет. <-- same thing but 5/много лет additionally describes the process' duration.

Я прожил (perf) в этом доме 5/много лет. <-- the result is the duration 5/много лет. If this describes the remote past, then the action finished there in the past and that's also a result. But if this describes the past immediately preceding now (often indicated by the use of the present perfect in English or in Russian with уже, к сегодняшнему дню, на настоящий момент, etc), then I may still live there, it's just that to date I've lived there for 5/many years and that's the only result.


Some more:


Студенты (не) сдали (perf) экзамен. <-- it's result we're talking about here: they did (not) pass it.

Студенты сдавали (imperf) экзамен. <-- they did take it, but the result/outcome is uncertain (whether they actually passed it). The result may become known later: И (не) сдали.

Студенты не сдавали экзамен. <-- they didn't plan to or weren't supposed to.

- Ты сделал (perf) домашнюю работу? <-- the parent is interested in the result
- Я делал (imperf) домашнюю работу. <-- the kid hasn't yet produced the result and is unwilling to talk about it or say directly that he hasn't done the work yet.


And even more, the actions that can be undone:


Я открывал (imperf) окно, чтобы проветрить комнату. <-- the window is now closed.

Я открыл (perf) окно, чтобы проветрить комнату. <-- the window is still open. These are similar to the round trip example (multiple directions, several occurrences).

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

And, of course, there're simpler cases: simultaneous, background and repeating actions take the imperfective. Consecutive actions are perfective unless you want/need to emphasize the process in some way and as result need to use the imperfective (discussed that already to some extent).

To summarize this:
Use imperfective for:
- processes (very important to distinguish those from one-time and quick actions), especially when described through the process' characteristics and when no results follow from the action
- habitual or repeated actions
- simultaneous actions
- open-ended processes/states/conditions, when neither the startpoint nor endpoint are indicated/implied
- background or interrupted actions in sentences with more than one action

Use imperfective for:
- actions with results
- consecutive actions (unless those are described as processes -- see above)
- actions with the startpoint or endpoint or both indicated/implied
- actions that interrupt other actions