[identity profile] gnomygnomy.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
I'm translating a poem by Alexandr Blok, and in addition to a couple words I need help with, I have quite a few where I can't guess the placement of the stress. The poem is На железной дороге.

What does "некошенном" mean? And where is the stress?

изнемогая?

вынуто?

кинуто?

раздавлена?

And I'm trying to make sense of the following verse:

Так мчалась юность бесполезная,
В пустых мечтах изнемогая...
Тоска дорожная, железная
Свистела, сердце разрывая...

"So (useless?) youth sped along,
exhausted in empty dreams...
Iron-road melancholy
whistled, breaking off the heart..." ??????????

Any help is appreciated! Thank you. :)

Date: 2007-11-25 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cherniavska.livejournal.com
"некошенном" is an adjective meaning that a field was left with the hay on it, the grass was cut with a special tool - коса(number 10 on the picture), hence некошенный
Image

изнЕмогая

вынУто

кинУто

раздАвлена

railway in Russian is a compound word - железная дорога, road made from iron rails so Blok is using the first part of the железная дорога as a metaphor - to describe a specific feeling of melancholy that people sometimes feel during the railway trip which is usually quite long. Especially, in parallel with "youth" that is fast as "an engine"..

Date: 2007-11-25 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cherniavska.livejournal.com
sorry, изнемогАя

!

Date: 2007-11-25 03:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zaza-vsevo.livejournal.com
изнемогАя

вЫнуто

кИнуто

раздАвлена

Date: 2007-11-25 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aylie-serinde.livejournal.com
Not at all - вЫнуто, кИнуто.
Yes, изнемогАя, раздАвлена.
I assume you've got the idea with this last verse. May be there can be a more beautiful poetic version, I'm not a specialist, but the sense is fairly true.
A sad poem... Beautiful but painful. A poor girl..

Date: 2007-11-25 05:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cherniavska.livejournal.com
you're right of course, I mean, with he stress.

Date: 2007-11-25 04:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zlozone.livejournal.com
есть одно слово которое четко переводит "некошеный" - unmown

Date: 2007-11-25 02:51 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Thank you for your contribution. However I would like to remind that the working language of this community is English.

Date: 2007-11-25 05:34 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cassandraclue.livejournal.com
i am confused by your definition of некошенный--if it were cut, wouldn't it be just кошенный? or do you mean that at the time this particular word came about, fields were cut with this tool and hence the word?

Date: 2007-11-25 05:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cherniavska.livejournal.com
unmown - некошенный. I am sorry, I was not clear enough..

Date: 2007-11-26 10:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gemelo.livejournal.com
There is word "некошенный" but there is no word "кошенный". It's not exception - there are plenty of words in Russian, which make sense only with не prefix - e.g. нелепо, нежданно, нечаянно,недобро etc
Excuse me imperfect English=))

Date: 2007-11-26 04:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malim-praedari.livejournal.com
You can say "скошенный" or "покошенный" to mean cut or mowed, however.

Date: 2007-11-27 06:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gemelo.livejournal.com
Undoudtedly, as a native speaker I find some word for phenomenon=)

Date: 2007-11-25 06:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dekarmi.livejournal.com
некошенный means that the grass was remained uncut on the field.

Date: 2007-11-25 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rower.livejournal.com
just three moments -
about the youth. it is not exhausted already, no, it is somewhere in her way of exhausting, not necessary even close to being exhausted. still, if she (youth) will continue, she will be exhausted for sure.

now about melancholy in this verse -
you see, there is a comma between both adjectives in third line ? actually - both of them are "adjected" to melancholy. yes, i know of the wordplay, this melancholy definately might be connected to "iron-road" (railway), but in your translation you are definately missing that it is a bitter tasting iron-heavy, iron-hard or iron-cold melancholy (of the road), that is geting over the person.

and now, about whistling.
for sure, свистеть means whistling, but not only that. the sound described by this werb might be anything ranging from marvelously soft bird singing to loudest honks and horns of factories or cars. and what is the most important - many WHOOSH-like sounds (i mean, like from arrows, bullets, whip or just air passing-by when you travel fast) are also described by this werb. ctually i feel, that here that word means sudden, loud and fearsome sound.

(p.s. if you are trying to make some fun of that piece of poetry, take just any dictionary, translate, and then forget it ASAP. if you are trying to really understand what is that all about - try to find someone natively speaking russian to clear up all the finesses and minor meanings and wordplays. that piece is much deeper than ANY dictionary will get you.)

Date: 2007-11-25 06:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rower.livejournal.com
now, when i think about that melancholy, i feel, that rather than using IRON a much better word would be STEEL. it makes much more sense (to me) to translate железо this way here and now.

Date: 2007-11-25 06:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rower.livejournal.com
about these 4, you needed not only stresses, but some meaningfull translations also ?

изнемогАя -werb, - "being in the process of exhausting."
вЫнуто - adj. - taken out. like a letter from the envelope or heart from the chest.
кИнуто - adj. - thrown or dropped. also - drown (like when you throw dices or drow some cards to make a choice - we say - кинуть (бросить) жребий. neutral might be used to depersonate the act and make it passive clause.)(huh, i hope i did not mix up with all that grammar stuff...)
раздАвлена - adj. - squashed. suppressed. compare with давить - press, push, apply force.

Date: 2007-11-26 08:27 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
in the process of BEING exhausted
изнемогать can also be translated as "to languish"

Два ярких глаза набегающих -
Нежней румянец, круче локон:
Быть может, кто из проезжающих
Посмотрит пристальней из окон.

When two bright lights approach,
Her blush becomes more delicate, her locks more curly:
Maybe one of the passengers
Will pay attention looking out of a window.

Date: 2007-11-27 01:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rower.livejournal.com
as i do no know the poem at all (i would say - i'm compleately off the topic with anything connected to russian literature and especially - poetry), i can only look by the context (and thanks to oryx_and_crake for copypasting it here).

look, when you travel - things are passing by you. same happens with people (quite logically ;) ). i do not know how to say that in english (okay, it's when something gets closer to you and it happens fast, you can say "набегающий". nearcomming, nearrunning, i do not know.), but it seems to me, that AB was definately talking about a woman. or at least a face - two bright (shining) eyes, approaching (oh, that was the word!), and a mild (milder?) blush, a curlier hairlocks (than those you can (usually) see around you). might it be, that someone passing by will look a bit closer through window?

pretty much text is missing out, isn't it? i'm told, that happens in poetry quite often. :)

Date: 2007-11-28 05:10 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Sorry but you are wrong about the "eyes". They are most certainly the locomotive's projectors. When they are approaching, the girl does her best to look prettier. If you are talking about a person, "набегающие глаза" does not make any sense. Mind also that there is a dash in the original text which basically stands in for a causal link ("when... then"). Also, the girl is not traveling at all, she is standing and waiting for the train to pass by. If you don't know the poem you'd better look it up, otherwise you are likely to make wrong conclusions. It is one of the most famous poems by Blok, so you will have no problem finding it online.

Date: 2007-11-26 04:35 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malim-praedari.livejournal.com
A brief note about the lines:
Тоска дорожная, железная
Свистела, сердце разрывая...

As you know, "железная дорога" means railroad. The line "тоска дорожная, железная" clearly plays on this. The adjectives function both to describe "тоска" and to allude to the the fact that it overcomes one traveling by railroad.

Date: 2007-11-27 02:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rower.livejournal.com
you just feel it that way. you can't be sure. and it's quite long time the man has got under the grass, so you can't ask him eather.
i think - that's the point with poetry, you will always see there more, or much, much less, than one was putting into it. you can never know exactly what it was supposed to mean.

Date: 2007-11-27 02:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malim-praedari.livejournal.com
I'm sure enough to stand by my original interpretation.

Date: 2007-11-26 08:23 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
also, probably the best rendition for юность бесполезная will be "fruitless"

Profile

learn_russian: (Default)
For non-native speakers of Russian who want to study this language

May 2017

S M T W T F S
 123456
78910111213
14151617181920
21 222324252627
28293031   

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Mar. 31st, 2026 08:27 am
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios