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[upthera44.livejournal.com]

 Here are a couple of Russian langauge questions: 

1. In English we often say things like "My hands are too cold to feel anything," "She was too sick to go to work," etc. The idea is that you are too much of something to do something else. Is this idea expressed the same way in Russian, with just слишком+ an infinitive? For instance: Он слишком умний принимать наркотики.


2. It seems that everyone says "Davai" just before hanging up the phone. Usually, it's to indicate that they're ready to get off the phone and often it's coupled with "poka" ("Nu, davai, poka").  Does "davai" in this context have a good English translation? "Alright" maybe (in the way we say, "Alright, cya"). Does it serve any grammatical purpose here? Why do people always say it?

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

1. У меня руки так застыли, что ничего не чувствуют.
Она была так больна, что не смогла выйти на работу.

2. Alright is probably a good equivalent. There is no grammatical purpose as far as I can see. It is probably a remnant of some truncated language construction here but I cannot imagine what it was either. "Давай", besides being an imperative from "дать", is often used in the meaning of "let's" or even "you should" (давай пойдем - let's go, давай делай - come on, do it).

[zespri.livejournal.com]

My interpretation is that initially "давай" was used (and still is used) as a form of agreement: Может в кино сходим? - Давай! (Let's go to the cinema? Sure, let's go!)
Or Созвонимся завтра. - Давай. (Let's get in touch tomorrow. - Alright.)
And then this usage has somehow transformed to become a bottom line point in a conversation with a possible meaning that the person saying давай agrees with the outcome of the conversation. Gradually the overtone of agreement dissolved and that's what we are having now - just a set word that fits in to the context of people saying bye to each other.

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes, I guess that's possible

[zespri.livejournal.com]

"Он слишком умный, чтобы принимать наркотики."

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Он слишком умный чтобы принимать наркотики.

Давай is roughly equivalent to 'let's' smth. Давай, пока! might be a short of 'Let's say goodbye' or 'well, let's do something, goodbye'. It's sort of a vague incitement to do something.

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

1. "У меня руки так застыли, что ничего не чувствуют" literally means "my hands are so cold, that they even don't feel a thing". It makes a very fine difference, so if you're only need to communicate, you'd be fine with this one.

If you are into fine details, as for the exact translation, you were right, it is "мои руки слишком замёрзли, чтобы что-либо чувствовать" and the second example would be "она была слишком больна, чтобы выйти на работу", i.e., "a fact слишком description, чтобы verb infinitive the rest of the phrase".

2. During my first year in USA I had an officemate, who always said "cool" before hanging up the phone. Since I had zero knowledge of American slang, I thought it was a word similar in meaning to "давай". :)

Offtopic: I also had advisor, who always started a phone conversation with the phrase "Hi, how are you doing?", and he would always wait for my answer, even if we talked by phone two minutes ago. At first, I thought he is interested in what am I doing, but I soon realized, that neither him, nor other Americans who do so do not seem to be interested in what I thought would be an answer. I also figured out the proper answer: "Fine, thanks, and you?", but I was still puzzled by this ritual, so much, that I even inherited it. It took me years to understand what you guys mean by this phrase: "Hi, is there anything more important for you in this moment, than the topic I'm about to talk to you?"

My impression is that we say "давай" for "Ok, let's get going and do what we just agreed in". I won't say "давай" if there were no shared plans established in the conversation.

[oryx_and_crake]

"мои руки слишком замёрзли, чтобы что-либо чувствовать"
no one talks like that in real life

I also sometime finish a telephone conversation with "ну давай, пока" even if we were not discussing any kind of arrangement.

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

>no one talks like that in real life
- true! Although we would probably say "он слишком умён, чтобы принимать наркотики", because "он так умён, что принимает наркотики" actually means something else.

>I also sometime finish a telephone conversation with "ну давай, пока"
I bet slang varies greatly with the geography, age and social circle. I would not be surprised, if Dusty would get a very different answers, which would all be valid. :)

[oryx_and_crake]

он так умён, что принимает наркотики" actually means something else
---
of course it does! Has anyone here said that they would mean the same thing?!

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

:)

I'm just trying to come up with a construction, that would work in all three cases: "my hands are too cold to feel anything", "she was too sick to go to work", "he is too smart to use drugs". ("так ..., что ... ." obviously fails in the third case.)

[ceiteach.livejournal.com]

"мои руки слишком замёрзли, чтобы что-либо чувствовать"
no one talks like that in real life

Why, suppose my friend tells me "Ты что, не чувствуешь, какая шершавая/гладкая кожа!" - It's only natural for me to answer "мои руки слишком замёрзли, чтобы что-то чувствовать".
"Я слишком устал, чтобы заниматься этим сейчас" has not absolutely the same meaning as "Я так устал, что не могу заниматься этим сейчас", I'm sure you use both in different situations and especially in different moods.

[oryx_and_crake]

It's only natural for me to answer "мои руки слишком замёрзли, чтобы что-то чувствовать".
---
Certainly not. You may not realise that, but people normally talk in shorter sentences with fewer subordinated clauses, than they write, and this sentence looks awful even in writing.

[detonate-for-me.livejournal.com]

The "how are you doing" thing on the phone annoys me so much, and I'm a native speaker of English. It's so insincere, and it wastes time. They don't care how I'm doing, and sometimes they don't even wait for an answer.

Sometimes I find it amusing to go into detail about the bad morning I've had (especially when it's a complete stranger calling).

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

Wow, you're the first native English speaker who says that, and I live in USA for years. Thanks a lot for your opinion! But do you mind looking at the second thought I had about gestures and telling also what you think? It's here (http://crimeanelf.livejournal.com/16923.html).

[detonate-for-me.livejournal.com]

That is interesting. I've noticed the difference between Russian and American smiling.

It's so culturally ingrained, and it's a very hard habit to break, even when you know it's not appropriate for your audience.

On the occasions when I smile due to reasons other than natural happiness or amusement, it's often due to nervousness. In my user profile it mentions how I'm good at smiling when I don't feel like it. (I've wondered if this is something about me that is uniquely American or maybe Western.) Even so, I am still accused (by Americans) of not smiling often enough. And non-Americans have complained that I smile too much.

[kegarawashii.livejournal.com]

I'd say that even if some plans were discussed during the conversation, "davai" used as a part of the farewell phrase "nu, davai, poka" has a "take care" shade of meaning. At least for me.)

[oryx_and_crake]

+1

[serpent-849.livejournal.com]

+1
ладно can also be used this way.

[dair-spb.livejournal.com]

not exactly. "Ладно" means "ok" in these situations (like "Ну ладно, пока" -- "Well, ok, bye"). "Давай", I believe, is reduced from something like "Давай там, будь здоров" ("Let you there, be healthy"), so, I agree with kegarawashii about "take care".

[ceiteach.livejournal.com]

+1

[firebottle.livejournal.com]

1. Слишком, достаточно, сильно, настолько, так etc.
"Мои руки так замерзли, что ничего не чувствуют."
"Она настолько плохо себя чувствовала, что не пошла на работу."
"Он достаточно умный (or: умён), чтобы не принимать наркотики."

2. "Давай" has several meanings depending on context. First is literal "давай это (something) сюда (somewhere)" - "give it here", second is like in "давай куда-нибудь съездим (let's go somewhere)", third is used like you noticed ("ну давай, пока") and in this context means something "let the things go, bye" or "continue doing the same way, bye".

[spinysun.livejournal.com]

Nota that construction "too... to" is used to make negation without using "non". Actually it is made from a true statemenet (cold hands) and somethings false, impossible (feel anything). So construction "так...что..." is not the best translation for this because it requires an additional negation in the second sentence. E.g.
Руки так холодны, что ничего не чувствуют.
If you want some kind of calque of an english construction, "слишком...чтобы" will work better:
Он слишком умен, чтобы принимать наркотики.
And when you use thr one with "так...что...", note that you nee a negation:
Она так плохо себя чувствовала, что не пошла на работу.
She was so sick that she didn't go to job.

[spinysun.livejournal.com]

Sorry, i didn't mean that as an answer to you, just misplaced my comment.

[triogen.livejournal.com]

I daresay он не настолько глуп suits the idea better than он слишком умён. The word слишком has IMHO a somewhat negative meaning. Having more brains than one is supposed to.

And, to say more, words умён and наркотики don't go together well. A bit offtopic, consider an expression его умное пьяное лицо. It sounds comical, doesn't it? Even when person in question is really both clever and drunk, the expression sounds comical.

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

+ 1. Stylistically, this is the way to go.

The bottom line is, where in English you have a single pattern easily applied to all three situations, in Russian you would use a sightly different pattern depending on the circumstances described. I'll bet it drives non-native speakers up the wall. It would me.

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

Его неглупое пьяное лицо... :)

давай

[superbad.livejournal.com]

eventually i realized that when people are saying it to me, in my head i translate it as "sounds good" and "ну все, давай, пока" would be like "arlight, sounds good," but that's just because that's what i usually say in english.