Modernism and the Size of Russia

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

Time for an off-the-wall question from such an off-the-wall person!

What is life like in rural Russia these days?-- I've heard that one can still travel back in time a hundred years to find little villages away from anything-- like the kind of village that conjures images of stave churches and horse-drawn sleighs-- where people have never even seen a computer. A tutor at uni who's from Siberia (for whom moving to some place like Tomsk was running away to the "big city") says that the only place youˈll ever go in Russia where not a single soul will know a word of English and maybe not even know where America is would probably be in deep Siberia. Now, some places in America still think that the world is flat, but you can find that even in the cities. ;)

So anyway, just how far "away" is rural Russia? Can I truly find my dreamland of a pre-industrial communal paradise? ;)

/end rambling

Comments

[trepang.livejournal.com]

here's a post with photos and videos from Northern Russian village of Lim (July 2007):

http://trepang.livejournal.com/202305.html

[famulan.livejournal.com]

It's only theoreticaly...

[famulan.livejournal.com]

I think you are not quite right.

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

Would you be so kind to give us an example of such a place within 200km from Moscow? You seem to know some. :)

[gauchette.livejournal.com]

oh you can.
still, it's much more like hell.

[crimeanelf.livejournal.com]

To tell you the truth, I don't think so. You may find plenty of places with no telephone or where people never saw a computer or disposable diapers. But it's like 50 years back, not a 100.

Speaking of Siberia. On this picture (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d0/Siberia_Federal_Subjects.png) in dark pink is what Russians call Siberia and in bright pink - what foreigners call Siberia. :) Very different, eh?

[igorborisov.livejournal.com]

It's back to front i think. Bright pink (or even red) - is actual Siberia, and dark pink - what foreigners call Siberia (Ural and Far East).

[faustin.livejournal.com]

Most russians --- don't say all, because some educated Russians know the difference --- only refer to the federal district of Siberia as siberia. In the international study of geography, including educated Russians, siberia refers to the north asian region east of the Urals. It's only for political division by the USSR that the smaller area, shaped to exclude other politically differentiated regions, came to be called Siberia. The political renaming trumped; besides which, "dalnevostochnee rossia" has a great colloquial appeal, quite sensibly.

Nothing seems to delight Russians as much as stories about Americans' ignorance or stupidity. (eg. "they believe there are bears walking down the streets!") -- most of which is a tragic case of projection and ignorance, itself. (I've been told no less than 50 times this quip about Americans believing bears in the streets in Siberia... mostly by Siberians who've met between zero and two Americans in their lives; while I've known thousands, and discussed Russia with hundreds, and have never met an American who believes such an absurdity. The popularity of this quip is rather telling, unfortunately.)

So, yes, I've heard dozens of times that Siberia refers only to the political region. Sadly, the Siberians and other Russians who were telling me this didn't even know the historical use of the term Siberia and the reason for their use of the political region rather than the geographic region.

In this case, you're linking to a map used to illustrate a distinction you didn't even bother to understand.

[igorborisov.livejournal.com]

Ok, you're right. I've messed geographical and political definitions of Siberia. I khow the difference between them, believe me. I learned it in school. But I live foremost in Russia (and political Siberia of course) and only then in Eurasia, Siberia (geographical), Middle-Siberian plateau, Angara basin and so on.
I don't see in my post any insinuation to Americans. I didn't say even one word about bears, ignorance and stupidity. It was just another point of view, insider's point.
By the way, you mean all Americans - Canadians, USA citizens, Mexicans, Brazilians and so on or only USA? And tell me please, if there are all of USA people make difference between America(s) and USA?
Let's not to start holy wars in this community, ok?

[faustin.livejournal.com]

I was already on the attack because --- possibly --- I misunderstood Ulvesang's entry, itself -- I didn't register his last line as a facetious joke. And my response was directed, not at your comment, but at the comment you were replying to.

I was being a bit of a jerk (chip on my shoulder on this issue), and I apologize. I certainly meant no insult to you.

Oh --- yes, I'm from the US and I do use Americans to refer to those from the USA. This is, probabilistically, the normal use of the term more than 90% of the time throughout the English speaking world. It has, however, been picked up as a reality check for how insular USA-Americans are --- how self-absorbed as a nation (and it's certainly true, we are). And many of the globetrotting (internationally traveling) Americans are very self-aware of this term (moreso than me), are eager to prove their worldliness by NOT using this term. But it's certainly true of more than 95% of US citizens.

[sibir-muzhyk.livejournal.com]

Yes! such villages are stil exist. The people of these villages is so called "староверы" (people of old faith).

[thevoiceofnick.livejournal.com]

I haven't been to Russia yet, but I am going next year. I just wanted to contribute to the argument.

I'm sure there are places in Russia that have the feel of 100 years ago, but they can't be completely old fashion. All of Russia, and in fact all of the world, has been hit by industry and technology to some degree. Even if people live in old ways without the newest technology, they still have an awareness of the way the world is to some degree. You can go into the most rural areas where people live like they did 100 years ago, and they're wearing baseball caps and 10 year old shoes from China.

There is a great movie called "The Gods Must Be Crazy" that shows the life of African Bushmen living a tribal lifestyle like they have for thousands of years, and this just several hundred miles from a big city. The truth (shown in behind the scenes on the DVD) shows that these people have in fact combined their old ways (hunting and gathering) with 20th century lifestyle... they make their food with pots and pans, they wash their clothing with running water and hang them to try with clips on lines. Of course these communities are poor, but it is practically impossible to find communities that are entirely cut off from outside life.

One of the reasons is people like the person who asked this question... he wants to go find a place that exists the way it did 100 years ago... by going to one of these places to visit, you're influencing the community and changing the way they think and see the outside world. It's like in Star Trek... the prime directive... never interfere with other civilizations... by doing that, those civilations start diverting from their initial path and start becoming like the visiting civilization.

Just my two cents. I too am fascinated by the prospects of finding an old civilization, but on the other hand, I wouldn't want to be the one that introduced materialism, consumerism, and other modern plagues to their lives.

[faustin.livejournal.com]

a pre-industrial communal paradise?

I honestly hope you go to siberia and live in such a place, for more than a year. Some people need to learn the hard way.

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

I guess humour's not a valued trait wherever you come from, then

[faustin.livejournal.com]

I'm glad to hear that was a facetious comment! I apologize for my humorlessness, I did misunderstand.

[serialcondition.livejournal.com]

a pre-industrial communal paradise?

try Utah