ЧТОБЫ ПОСМОТРЕЛИ ИЛИ ЧТОБЫ ПОСМОТРЕТЬ?

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Dear Community,

Could you please provide your input on the following?

1. Is it correct to say? – «Они ХОТЯТ пойти в планетарий, чтобы ПОСМОТРЕЛИ карту звездного неба.»


2. Is it correct to say? - «Они ПОШЛИ в планетарий, чтобы ПОСМОТРЕТЬ карту звездного неба.»

The essence of my question is this: When does one use the INFINITIVE with ЧТОБЫ, and when not? What’s the grammar rule in practical terms?

Thank you in advance.

ФБ

Comments

[nekoth.livejournal.com]

Second variant. As far as I tried to create various examples with "ЧТОБЫ", there were only infinitives, so it seems to be the rule :-)
ps. By the way you can say: "Они пошли в планетарий, чтобы посмотреть карту звездного неба".

[prorok-samuil.livejournal.com]

1. No. But would be correct if you use "somebody" between чтобы and ПОСМОТРЕЛИ
For example: чтобы [их] дети (гости, друзья) ПОСМОТРЕЛИ
2. Yes

[belaja-belka.livejournal.com]

+1. You can say "Они пошли в планетарий с детьми, чтобы дети посмотрели карту звездного неба", или "Они пошли в планетарий с детьми, чтобы те посмотрели карту звездного неба".

[harunoko.livejournal.com]

it is correct to say ЧТОБЫ ПОСМОТРЕТЬ in both cases

[oryx_and_crake]

они хотят (хотели, пошли) посмотреть (they want to see for themselves)

они хотят, чтобы дети (мы, люди, зрители) посмотрели (they want us, people, the children to see this)

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

A follow-up question for clarification:

1. Он хочет ехать в Москву, чтобы посмотреть Красную Площадь.
2. Я хочу, чтобы он ехал в Москву посмотреть Красную Площадь.

Are these two sentences grammatically correct?

[melifaro-9tom.livejournal.com]

"Он хочет поехать в Москву, чтобы посмотреть" or "Он хочет съездить"
Same in the second sentense.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

1. Он хочет поехать (съездить) в Москву, чтобы посмотреть Красную Площадь.
2. Я хочу, чтобы он поехал в Москву посмотреть Красную Площадь.

Are these two sentences grammatically correct?

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes, they are.

[leggedxl.livejournal.com]

correct is: Он хочет поехать в Москву, чтобы посмотреть Красную Площадь.

поехать - it means: he's be going to...., he's not do it yet.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

2. Я хочу, чтобы он поехал в Москву посмотреть Красную Площадь.

So what about No. 2?

[leggedxl.livejournal.com]

2. Я хочу, чтобы он поехал в Москву посмотреть Красную Площадь.

Yes, is it correct.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

correct, and, of course, w/o чтобы between two dependent verbs/actions you could just serialize the verbs as if they were unrelated:
Я хочу, чтобы он поехал в Москву [,]/[и] посмотрел Красную Площадь.
It's pretty common to say so.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Thanks, that's something that I had not focused on. I'm sure it will come in handy.

[oryx_and_crake]

I had a look at the tests, just of curiosity. They probably contain other errors, too, because even the main page contains an error:

"Выполняй тесты внимательно, по одному-двум за один присест "
is wrong. It is "выполнять по одному тесту" or "выполнять по два теста", and it does not work well at all when someone tries to aggregate it in a construction like "по одному-два", which is correct but awkward. "Выполнять по одному-двум" is plain wrong. I am pretty certain that whoever created this site was not a native speaker, or maybe he is an immigrant child who spoke Russian in his childhood (but not since coming to another country), and is so confident in the level of his Russian that did not even seek any native speaker's help in designing the tests.

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. The construction of the sentences in the tests also does not look good in many cases. E.g. there are full stops instead of commas, so the sentence breaks into two parts when it should be a single sentence, etc.

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. Oops, that was supposed to be a comment to your other posting, about an online test.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I also had an impression that the test was compiled by a non-native speaker, or by somebody who had long lost the contact with actual language bearers. At least the feeling of grammar logic had deserted the compiler completely.

[scolar.livejournal.com]

The awkward phrase can be improved if we use accusative case instead of dative: "Выполняй тесты внимательно, один-два [теста] за присест".

[oryx_and_crake]

That's better, however I would not use "за присест".

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

So...

...по один-два теста... <- "один-два теста" all agree with each other, but don't quite agree much with "по", the cases before and after по mismatch.

...по одному-двум тестам... <- "по одному-двум тестам" all agree with each other, but don't quite agree with "выполняй". You could perfectly say "я определил это по одному-двум тестам".

...по одному-два теста... <- "по два теста" agree with each other, but "по одному теста" or just this "одному-два" is definetely wrong.

Here's what I'm arriving at...
You can perfectly say either of the following, but we get into the trouble when we try to combine them into a single sentence:
Выполняй тесты внимательно, по одному за (один) присест/заход/раз...
Выполняй тесты внимательно, по два за (один) присест/заход/раз...
The oddity is that while each of these is correct and means the same thing (except for the count involved), for 1 test we use one case (dative) but for 2 or more of them we use another (accusative?).

So, these tests are probably great for those with advanced language skills, but they seem to easily confuse everyone, including native speakers. :)

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

lemme rewrite the two last sentences to visualize the cases better:
Выполняй тесты внимательно, по *одному тесту* за (один) присест/заход/раз.
Выполняй тесты внимательно, по *два теста* за (один) присест/заход/раз.

[oryx_and_crake]

well, you can omit the subject, then it sound fine: "Выполняй тесты внимательно, по одному-два за раз."

[oryx_and_crake]

soundS

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

You may also say for example "Они пошли в планетарий, чтобы показали звездное небо". It would mean 'They went to the planetarium such day/time so as the starry sky was on there'. It's pretty colloquial use, though.

[oryx_and_crake]

No, that does not work at all. It's all wrong. "Они пошли в планетарий ВЕЧЕРОМ, КОГДА ТАМ ПОКАЗЫВАЛИ (показывают) звездное небо" is correct.

Erhm...

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Пошли в планетарий.
Пошли, а когда?
Ну пошли так, чтобы там звездное небо показали.

Re: Erhm...

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

Have you ever been to a "планетарий" ? They always show a starry sky there. Regardless of the time. That's because in "планетарий" they have a model of the starry sky. Nobody goes there to see clouds on blue. :)

Re: Erhm...

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Have you ever been to a russian планетарий? ;P

Re: Erhm...

[spiritrc.livejournal.com]

Did it change THAT much in the last 20 years? ;) I only remember a false sky there.

Anyway, it's impossible to see any real stars in the sky from Bolshaya Gruzinskaya in Moscow even at night - too much ambient light. Moon and, maybe, Sirius - that's all you'll be able to see if you look at the real sky. :)