[identity profile] freiburg234.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian

Dear Community,

I have a question concerning correct use of imperfective vs. perfective in Russian. Here's the example:

1. Виктор шёл по улице и не узнавал родного города. 
2. Виктор шёл по улице и не узнал родного города.

Which one of the above two is correct and why is the other one wrong?

Thank you in advance for your kind input.

ФБ

Date: 2007-05-19 04:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upwave.livejournal.com
Sequence of tenses: Виктор шёл по улице и не узнавал родного города.
But you can say also "Виктор прошел по улице и не узнал родного города" (only past).

Date: 2007-05-19 04:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] apollotiger.livejournal.com

I believe (and I hope everyone corrects me if I’m wrong) that знал is the imperfective of узнал.

Date: 2007-05-19 04:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] apollotiger.livejournal.com
Or at least, I’ve seen знал and узнал paired before. I might be totally wrong on this and about to learn something interesting about Russian. :)

Date: 2007-05-19 04:58 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
in узнать as in "to get to know", yes, it is paired with знать
however, in узнать as in "to recognize" it is paired with узнавать
but then again, узнать as in "to get to know", it is paired with узнавать too

Date: 2007-05-19 05:02 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
OK, I think this calls for an elaborate set of examples

to recognize:
Я встретил друга, которого не видел много лет, и сразу узнал его. (perfective)
Я говорил с этим человеком и не узнавал его. (imperfective)

to know/find out
Я узнал из газет, что завтра будет хорошая погода. (perfective)
Я знал ответ на этот вопрос (imperfective)
Учась в школе, я каждый день узнавал что-нибудь новое. (imperfective)

To generalize...

Date: 2007-05-19 04:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joliecanard.livejournal.com
When you prefix a verb and it takes on a meaning that is more than the sum of the two parts, you can then derive a new imperfective verb that retains this new meaning.

быть
прибыть - to arrive, perf.
прибывать - to arrive, imp.

This suffixation often imposes a mutation:
говорить
договорить
догаваривать

править
исправить
исправлять

Re: To generalize...

Date: 2007-05-19 06:20 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
догОваривать

Re: To generalize...

Date: 2007-05-19 08:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joliecanard.livejournal.com
oops, yeah.

Date: 2007-05-19 07:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] archaicos.livejournal.com
I think since узнавать is used in the sense of recognizing, and the recognition was done continuously during the walk as it takes time to walk and see and not like "was walking and suddenly realized the city was different/unfamiliar", it's logical to put it also into imperfective.
Likewise, if it was "Прошел по улице и не узнал", then (non-)recognition would also be result of walking and when the former action is finished, the latter should be finished too, hence both are perfective.

Date: 2007-05-19 08:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] constpd.livejournal.com
Generally, if you use two equitable predicates, they have to be both perfective or both imperfective.

Date: 2007-05-20 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marta-mb.livejournal.com
I think this means:
узнавал - continuos/incomplete action, "was in the process of learning/recognition"
узнал - completed action, "has learnt/recognised"

Perhaps the second one is right because the verbs should be of the same aspect (шёл - узнавал vs. пришёл - узнал)?

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