Learn Russian

First of all, there is a useful Russian word будучи.

Каждая книга, БУДУЧИ ХХХХ, основана на том, что происходило в прошлом, и вырастает из него.

Notice the syntactic structure.

Then, intuition here is IMHO closer to подсознание than to интуиция.

All in all it can be smth like

"and" - I'd rather translate as "а" here.

Каждая книга, зародившись в подсознании (а в случае беллетристики - будучи разработанной подсознательно) основана на том, что происходило в прошлом, и вырастает из него.

I don't quite like this "разработанный подсознательно" thing though. What exactly does he mean here?

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He - I mean, the author.

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Excellent contribution. Thank you very much.

To answer your question. The author means that each of his successive works has contained the wealth of experience that he has gathered to date. It's kind of like putting together a Matryoshka doll, starting with the smallest piece and moving on to the next bigger one.

Accordingly, he couldn't have written the third book before having written the first and second books in that order. As each book represents a stage in his own growth that is prerequisite for the subsequent step.

He's not just writing various independent, unconnected, works. Rather, his writing represents a discovery of self, a putting together of the pieces of a puzzle, as it were. As such, the present moment (book) always contains the complete sum of self, to date - like a Matryoshka doll that contains all the smaller dolls under the surface.

Intuition, or, as you put it, подсознание, is the guiding force that the author uses to locate the pieces of his puzzle (self).

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Thank you. What I don't quite understand is whether the book is a result of the previous ones:
1)ALTHOUGH it is formed intuitively (the author does not control this, it just happens) or
2)BECAUSE the author is intuitive (his intuition leads him this way).

Хотя замысел любой книги (а в случае беллетристики - и ее сюжет) рождает интуиция автора, в основе всегда лежит опыт более ранних произведений. Думаю, про любую из моих книг можно сказать, что она выросла из предыдущих. //включает в себя предыдущие, содержит в себе предыдущие.//

Рождая замысел (а в случае беллетристики - и сюжет) книги, интуиция автора всегда основывается на прошлом опыте. Думаю, про любую из моих книг можно сказать, что она выросла из предыдущих.

But I've gone too far from the original again, I'm afraid.

It seems that I make things more complicated instead of making them simpler. :(((

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Thank you for the great input. Rather than confusing the issue, you're helping to clarify it by asking lots of pertinent questions.

1. I think it's important to assume that the author chose his words carefully, fully aware of the gamut of potential expressions available to him. In other words, we should not question whether the author understood what he was saying. Rather, we should strive to comprehend what he said from his standpoint. Our basis for interpretation must therefore remain his carefully selected words.

2. Thus, had he meant "хотя", I think he would have used "although", or some other word to indicate the tension of juxtaposed ideas. Since there is no evidence of such tension in the author's choice of words, it seems to me more accurate to infer "because", or, as you put it "Рождая замысел", which suggests agreement with what has foregone.

3. Wouldn't quite agree with this: "Думаю, про любую из моих книг можно сказать, что она выросла из предыдущих". Because, "...and grows out of it" refers not specifically to the previous books, but rather to "...what has gone before...", which includes but is not limited to the previous books in the narrow sense.

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A, so it's because. Thanks again!

... the last book contained all the others...
This is what corresponds to "выросла из предыдущих". It's about the previous books, isn't it?

I've translated "...and grows out of it" as "интуиция автора всегда основывается на прошлом опыте" (Authors's intuition is always based on past experience).

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What the author is saying is each book reflects his level of experience/insight at the time of writing. As he has moved on, each new book has reflected the higher level of experience/insight. Inherently, a higher level of experience/insight reflects all prior levels of experience/insight.

Hence, it's not about the previous books. Rather, it's about the author's experience/insight that is reflected in each successive book.

"Each book stands on...and grows out...of what has gone before," is the author's statement.

As you phrased it, it seems that "grows out of it" refers specifically to each previous book, and not the totality of the author's experience/insight, as is stated here by him.

"...the last book contains all the others" corresponds to "...последняя книга содержает в себе все остальные".

One book does not grow out of the other, i.e "выросла из предыдущих". Each book grows out of experience/insight, i.e. "what has gone before". The last book contains all the others because it (the last book) reflects "what has gone before", i.e. the author's experience/insight to date.

(Obviously, the books are not writing themselves. So, the only way to understand the statement is to relate it specifically to the author's own sense of development.) :)

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Okay, let it be "содержит" (not содержает though). I think it would be more Russian to say "каждая книга содержит в себе предыдущие" than "последняя книга содержит в себе все остальные" - but this is again merely style, not grammatic.

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БУДУЧИ ХХХХ is right, or you can use an alternative construction. And I agree about своих, it is wrong here.

Каждая книга, интуитивно почувствованНАЯ и, в случае художественной литературы, интуитивно разработанНАЯ, стоит на том, что происходило раньше, и вырастает из него. Я считаю, что на любом этапе МОИХ литературных занятий можно было бы сказать, что последняя книга содержала в себе все остальные.

However почувствованная is a little bit awkward - I would say нащупанная

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"нащупанная" - may be найденная?

BTW, may be not книга, but произведение? Or замысел?

The phrase should not be translated direcly - that is what I am sure about.

freiburg234, thanks for an interesting example. This is quite a challenge for a translator. :)

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direcTly

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My pleasure. It's fun challenging you, because it means challenging myself, too. As they say, we grow by mastering our challenges.

I'd go with нащупанная as opposed to найденная. I think this more truly represents the author's intent.

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Yes, нащупанная is a good word here. But нащупанная книга - is smth material - some book a blind man is trying to find foe example. I mean that woul look a bit funny, I think.

If you use нащупанная, then it should be not книга but smth else. Замысел, сюжет - something of the kind.

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Wow. Thanks again. I guess I'm going to have to think this over and find some examples in context to make sure I get it right in future.

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Thank you.

1. Is почувствованНАЯ vs. почувствоваНА a requirement, or simply an alternative view? In other words, is there a sure fire way for one to be able to differentiate between the two. If so, what is that way?

2. What doesn't "своих" work here? Can you name the rule that it conflicts with?

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1. I'd say that both are wrong for there is no such participle.

As for the rule - em...

a) Каждая книга, будучи прочитана вовремя, приносить пользу.
b) Каждая книга, будучи прочитаннОЙ вовремя, приносит пользу. (instr. case)
c) Каждая книга, если она прочитана вовремя, приносит пользу.
d) Каждая книга, прочитанная вовремя, приносит пользу (without будучи - full form only).

I'll try to formulate the rule but I'll have to think. I've never taught Russian actually. :)

2. That's because the main predicate in this clause is impersonal, I think.

E.g.
Я не понимаю, как можно бить своих детей.
I don't understand how one can beat one's own children.

Notice - it is not MY children one beats here.

If I wanted to say smth like "I dont' understand how one can beaqt my children they are so nice", I'd have to use "моих детей", not "своих детей".

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It probably has to deal with the fact that you cannot have two predicates in a sentence that are of very different type. In книга разработана... разработана is a predicate and стоит/вырастает is a predicate of an altogether different type. I daresay they don't mix well. However when you use книга, разработанная (...), стоит (...) the разработанная part becomes a participle group and not a predicate, therefore it does not clash any more.

As to своих vs. моих, it does not work here. Maybe there is a rule but I don't know one. It is just looks wrong.

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Oh, I got it. You have the commas wrong, because there is a comma before the first интуитивно which makes you think it's going to be a participle group and then you suddenly see it is not. You could rearrange the sentence in the following way (mind the commas):

Каждая книга интуитивно почувствована, интуитивно разработана, стоит на происшедшем раньше и вырастает из него.
That way it works.

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Yes it works, but in this case Russian syntax is simpler then the structure of the original sentence.

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Who cares as long as the translation conveys the meaning? One should not think too much about preserving the sentence structure anyway, it is not always relevant (sometime it is, e.g. when the centence structure expresses the cause and effect, but I think this is not the case).

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OK. I think I've got your meaning now. May have to sleep on it. But at least I'll have something to work with. Thank you.

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Oh, yes, may be this is it. The short form is predicative, it forms a clause. It isn't equal to a "participle phrase" (? причастный оборот) which is a part of a clause.

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As to

Я считаю, что на любом этапе своих литературных занятиях можно было бы сказать

своих does not work here because you use impersonal можно. If you use personal pronoun, then you should use своих:

На каждом этапе своих литературных занятий я мог бы сказать, что...
BUT
На каждом этапе моих литературных занятий можно было бы сказать, что...

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Wow. I think that's it. A genuine oversight on my part. Thank you for pointing that out.

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Looked at your suggestion, i.e.:

"and" - I'd rather translate as "а" here.

Based on what I know about Russian "а", it often expresses some tension with the foresaid. At the very least, some kind of pause in thought before moving on.

In this particular case "and" is used in the same sense as the Russian "в частности", i.e. a continuation and refining of thought.

I'm not sure that Russian "a" carries this sense better than Russian "и". But, will be glad to study your elaboration.

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Well in this case (i.e. Each book, intuitively sensed and, in the case of fiction, intuitively worked out) Russian "a" highlites the opposition. The statement that in case of fiction a book is NOT ONLY sensed BUT ALSO worked out by author's intuition. This phrase would be pronounced as an add-on, with parenthetical intonation.

It is not a "must" though. We could translate it as "и" also.

Порождая и (если речь идет о художественном вымысле) формируя произведение, интуиция автора всегда основывается на прошлом опыте.

How about this?

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I feel that at any stage of my literary career it could have been said ...
Я считаю, что на любом этапе своих литературных занятиях можно было бы сказать...

1. литературных занятИЙ - it's genitive here, not prepositive.

2. "своих" with impersonal construction would mean "one's", not "my". In this case It should be "моих" (although possesive pronouns are used much less in Russian than in English).

3. IMHO "I feel" is closer to "мне кажется" than to "я считаю". The latter is much more categorigal.

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Мне кажется, на любом этапе моей литературной деятельности последняя книга как бы включала в себя все остальные.

Or - simpler

Думаю, о каждой моей книге можно было бы сказать, что она включает в себя предыдущие.

That's quite far from the original, of course, but that is how I'd translate it if I were to, I think

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Can you tell me why it is that you would stray so far from the original?

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I think, it's because Russian word by word translation looks too long and clumsy to me while English text is laconic and clear.

I work at a computer game localization company, and I am accustomed to translate not word by word but idea by idea. May be it is not so good when one is learning the language.

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Agree, laconic and clear would better represent the original here. At the same time, one doesn't want to be laconic and clear at the expense of content.

Although, you are certainly right. Content is also a factor of cultural understanding. So, what may appear bereft of content to person A (a learner) can be pregnant with meaning to person B (an adept).

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1. Thank you. занятИЙ was a genuine oversight on my part. Thanks for catching it.

2. Still not too clear with "своих" vs. "моих". After all, the subject "я" is clearly identified. And I'm told that in such cases when the subject is clearly identifed, we can use "свой" and it will be understood that it refers to the subject, in this case "я". The only thing that I can think of, now, is that "моих" is used to emphasize the particularity of the expeience. Is that so?

3. "мне кажется". This suggestion appears to be along the lines of the individualization of the experience that - it seems to me - "моих" is designed to suggest. IMHO if we continue like this then we will have watered down the statement until its original content will have been virtually dissolved.

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3. "Думаю", may be? I just intuitively :) don't like this считаю.

Считаю means rather "this is my opinion, something I've thoroughly thought over". This is something logical. Is this the case? I thought that "I feel" here means something like "may be I can't logically explain it, but this is how I feel about my books".

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Yes, "Думаю", maybe.

I guess my problem is that I just don't know Russian well enough to be able to grasp - intuitively - the various shades of meanings of similes like "думаю", "мне кажется" and "считаю".

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And mine is that I can't explicate my intuition.

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Sorry, used wrong word, 'similes' should read 'synonyms'.

I think if you want to be able to explain your intuition, you've got to let it do the thinking.

(deleted comment)

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I think, "своей" is grammatically incorrect here.

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annmarty.livejournal.com

no, "своей" is quite ok but in this case it's a bit ambiguous. but mind the comas
"Каждая книга, интуитивно прочувствованная и, в случае беллетристики, интуитивно разработанная, основывается на том, что произошло раньше, и вытекает из этого. Я считаю, что на любом этапе моей литературной деятельности можно было бы сказать, что последняя книга содержала в себе (включала в себя/охватывала) все остальные(предыдущие). В. С. Найпол"

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