Different questions

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

1) Difference between измывательство and издевательство?

2) How does one say "Just as long as you don't (trip/die/offend him/fail)."

3) What's the word that you use for "recovering alcoholic?" I remember it starting with a з... sorry for not knowing more. Завязывающий? I dunno...

4) And what would be the verb? I'm not sure if I know the verb in English, either. "He is trying very hard to become sober?" Would that just be стать трезвым?

5) Is "Ещё бы!" close to "Of course!/Exactly!"?

6) Is it едва ли or еле ли?

[EDIT] Ah yes, and 7) when does one use мол vs. говорит vs. дескать vs. -де? And what exactly does each of them mean?

Comments

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

1) the former is worse and meaner
2) [пока/покуда/до тех пор (пока)] не умрет/обидит/...
3) завязывать - пытаться бросить пить; быть в завязке - не пить. Завязывающий - isn't that word. can't remember at the moment -- too sleepy.
4) трезветь, протрезвляться are the verbs describing the process of getting/becoming sober
5) еще бы/еще как! yep, no bull!
6) едва ли = hardly; еле-еле (делать что-то) = (to do something) very very slowly

[avatarakali.livejournal.com]

мол - is old word for "he said" came from old "молвил" (spoke)
it is also used in saying like "kinda"
for example - он сказал, мол, они выиграли. (he said, kinda, they won)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

1. The latter is widely used, and I have rarely heard of the former, that's the difference (издевательство is a "dictionary word" all right, while измывательство seems to be some kind of an occasionalism.)
6. Едва ли (hardly) is correct. Еле ли does not exist.
7. Мол is only used (or, should I say, WAS used -- it is getting out of active use within the last few decades) when you speak about somebody saying something: он сказал мне, что, мол, хватит молоть чепуху (he told me that I must stop to speak rubbish) -- and there is no other situation when you can use it. It does not substitute for говорит, except that when you describe somebody speaking.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I've a random favor to ask of you. May you decline молоть and колоть for me?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

That's a tough one! Молоть belongs to the hardest Rгssian verbs in terms of conjugation (note that this is conjugation, not declension!), since it has so called stem vowel alternation (чередование гласных в корне):
Present tense: Я мелю, Ты мелешь, Он (она, оно) мелет, Мы мелем, Вы мелете, Они мелют (see that Е completely replaces О in the stem?)
BUT past tense: Я/ты/он молол, Она молола, Оно мололо, Мы/вы/они мололи.

Колоть (as well as полоть and бороться) does not have the stem vowel alternation, but its conjugation is also not very clear even for native speakers:
Я колю, Ты колешь, Он колет, Мы колем, Вы колете, Они колют
(past tense: колол/кололи).

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Those two particles, мол and дескать, are used when you describe someone speaking (or convey somebody's words to other listener.)
мол is reduced "молвил" (сказал, "said," in old Russian.)
дескать (and its derivative -де) comes directly from Ancient Russian: it is reduced from "дѣетъ сказати" ([he] does speak). Its meaning is slightly different than that of мол: when you use дескать (or -де) you show that you do not exactly trust the speaker whose speech you convey to your listener(s). It is quite dated and its use diminishes; it is now almost completely replaced by another particle that means that you doubt the source you mention: "якобы".

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

I think you can substitute "мол" for "quote", as in "John/they/she/we said, quote, .....". At least that's the way it makes sense to me. Quote unquote.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

2) How does one say "Just as long as you don't (trip/die/offend him/fail)."
2) [пока/покуда/до тех пор (пока)] не умрет/обидит/...

I think the meaning of the English term "Just as long" is better rendered in Russian with "поскольку.....", inasmuch as "just" establishes a condition for the future.

I don't know to what extent - or even if - "пока/покуда/до тех пор" actually set a condition rather than just describe a situation, i.e. "until you fall".

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

"Дескать" can be used for quasi-direct speech like "А он упёрся - я, дескать, ничего не видел и ничего не знаю". With "якобы", however, only indirect speech is possible - "А он упёрся и твердит, что якобы ничего не видел и ничего не знает".

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

This is correct; but the fact is that the use of якобы vastly overshadows that of дескать (the use of which is now almost completely reduced to a voluntary imitation of "high-brow," old-style speech.)

[lindagraciela.livejournal.com]

1) Difference between измывательство and издевательство?
I'd say the difference is stylistic: 2 is OK in all styles, 1 is less formal (and maybe more emotional)
2) How does one say "Just as long as you don't (trip/die/offend him/fail)." пока не? Can you give a broader context, maybe a situation for the English one?
3) What's the word that you use for "recovering alcoholic?"
doesn't exist in the world :)
4. in English "to become sober" can mean "stop drinking at all" (or can it?), in Russian протрезветь/протрезвиться is only "get sober this one time". The Russian equivalent to "stop drinking" would be завязать, бросить (without the noun). The participle завязывающий does sound weird, not only because the action does not exist in the real world, but also because: 1) завязать is one-time action, perfective, and this participle is imperfective; 2) participles are used in formal or written speech, you won't use them in conversation, and the verb завязать is conversation-level. The guy who's decided to stop drinking will be called в завязке (он в завязке, не пьет), but it's again very colloquial, and also doesn't convey all the connotations of "recovering".
5. I'd say is't "sure", so yes, it's close.

[lindagraciela.livejournal.com]

6) Is it едва ли or еле ли?
1. "Еле ли" is not Russian at all.

7) when does one use мол vs. говорит vs. дескать vs. -де? And what exactly does each of them mean?
мол and дескать are archaic, though still used sometimes, mostly for olden-times coloring; -де sounds like Tolstoy's peasants, beginning of the 19th c. or even earlier. If you want to use something and not be laughed at, use говорит. Oh, forgot: мол and дескать may mean, on top of being archaic, that the other guy says something, but you know he's lying.

Great questions! What are you reading that you think of these things?

[vakhitov.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I just wanted to instruct the poster on the correct usage.

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

2) How does one say "Just as long as you don't (trip/die/offend him/fail)."

Do you mean like in: "It's okay if he does so-and-so just as long as he doesn't hurt himself"?

There is no direct mapping of this phrase to a Russian construct that I can think of. You can paraphrase and say "Если ему это не повредит, пусть делает" ("Let him do it if it doesn't hurt him"). You can also use "лишь бы": "Пусть делает, лишь бы ничего не повредил". I would translate the secod option exactly as "Let him do it as long as he doesn't hurt himself anywhere."

There's a Russian saying: "Чем бы дитя не тешилось - лишь бы не плакало". ("Let the child do what she wants just as long as it keeps her from crying.")

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

Oops, that would be, "Чем бы дитя НИ тешилось...".

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Ugh... I get "conjugation" and "declension" mixed up in every language...

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

>2) How does one say "Just as long as you don't (trip/die/offend him/fail)." пока не? Can you give a broader context, maybe a situation for the English one?

"Can I go play on the trampoline?"
"Sure, just as long as you don't kill yourself."

>Great questions! What are you reading that you think of these things?

I've been meaning to ask certain questions from time to time but never posted them. This is an accumulation of reading Russian articles, Russian LJs, and Russian texts for class. And taking Russian exams about grammar.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

1) завязать is one-time action, perfective, and this participle is imperfective

But one can still say "Не пора ли завязывать?", yes?

[lindagraciela.livejournal.com]

> "Can I go play on the trampoline?"
"Sure, just as long as you don't kill yourself."

- Можно я попрыгаю на (need help here - have never talked about this thingie in Russian!)
- Давай, смотри только не убейся. (or, rather, не ушибись, не упади - the literal translation of "don't kill yourself" will sound too graphic in Russian).
Also: только не убейся / смотри не убейся /если убьешься, пеняй на себя / если убьешься, сам будешь виноват - the last two versions are more idiomatic, less word-by-word translations, but it seems that they convey the meaning slightly better.

Keep up the good work!

[lindagraciela.livejournal.com]

>But one can still say "Не пора ли завязывать?", yes?

Absolutely.
In this construction you can actually say both: Не пора ли завязывать?" and "Не пора ли завязать?". There is some subtle difference between the variants, but I am afraid I can't formalize it. Maybe Не пора ли завязывать? means "isn't it time to start the process of recovering", while Не пора ли завязать? means "isn't it time to stop drinking cold turkey".

However, when I hear (in isolation, without any context) "он завязал", the first meaning that crosses my mind is "he has stopped drinking". When I hear "он завязывает", I think "the guy is tying (sp.?) - what? his shoelaces? the sentence sounds incomplete", and the meaning "he's trying to stop drinking" doesn't occur to me at all. In this context, завязать vs. завязывать mean different things! Go figure.

Have I scared you too much?

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

Trampoline is "батут".

[lindagraciela.livejournal.com]

"батут" is a huge device for professional sports - is the small short-legged round thing for children called "батут" as well?

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Actually, the shoelace thing crossed my mind as well. I can never remember the word for it, though...

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

Ha ha, a батут (huge device for professional sports) -is- what children use in their backyards. The small short-legged round things are called "mini-trampolines" in English, and are used mostly for exercise.