Learn Russian

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Here, try here (http://download.yousendit.com/07BDC6CA31E419E8)! I think there was something wrong with the previous file..

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Well, it's not bad for just a few weeks of study! The main problem is the palatalization of consonants preceding и, я, ё etc., but this is the main problem for most non-native Russian speakers.
In this case, palatalization problems are heard in опять and всё: in опять, the last consonant is palatalized OK, but in "пя" you pronounce a non-palatalized consonant and a diphthong (пья=pya) instead of a palatalized consonant preceding [a].
Shall I record a native speaker's prononciation example for you? Or you already have some kind of an audio example?

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Oh no! Hahaha! The palatalization is thoroughly confusing, my tongue is all twisted up. If you could, that would be great :) The one I have is too fast for me to catch properly. Do go a little slower please! Спасибо :)

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Try this. I repeat the sentence thrice, with slightly different intonation. (http://www.moshkow.net/snd/net.mp3)

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Thank you so very much! You are my hero for today!

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dair-spb.livejournal.com

do you need this phrase as said by native speaker?

And pair of my notes:
1. There are 3 sounds in "Нет", not 4. Word you pronounced could be written like "Ньет" (there's no such word :-)). Same for "опять" (you pronounced "опьять") и "всё" (you pronounced "всьо").
2. Maybe it's my hearing but I heard hard "т" sound in "опять" when it should be soft one.

The rest seems to be great, thank you for studying Russian :-)

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You cannot explain palatalization just by using Russian letters - for somebody who is not taught the very concept of palatalization of Russian consonants (which is the main problem for most Westerners who study Russian) "всьо" and "всё" is absolutely the same, and they honestly cannot understand the difference.

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You could try transcribing, using English standards and/or IPA. For instance:

всё - "vseau" (not "vsyo") - see the difference?

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There is no difference unless you stress the idea that S must be palatalized here. The fact that most Russian consonants exist in two versions, palatalized and non-palatalized ("soft" and "hard"), seems so "natural" for native Russian speakers that they normally pay no attention to that. It's not the way you write the vowel, it's the way you pronounce the consonant, and you must be aware that certain Russian vowels (и, я, ё, ю, sometimes е) requite palatalization of the preceding consonant, and that the palatalization of the consonant is not equal to putting a diphthong after a "hard" consonant. This needs to be explained to a non-native speaker, and still is the main problem of most learners of Russian, even after they get the idea.

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I realize that. I think IPA still can help in this reagard. Of course, the best way is to simply hear the palatalization, since explaining it is often fruitless.

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Oh wow, first off, thanks for everyone's input on this, I really appreciate that everyone is nice enough not to laugh in my face for the nightmarish recording. I have to say that although it is general easy to grasp the concept of palatalization, the pronunciation itself is very confusing for a non-native speaker like me-- hopefully with practice I will be better :)

This reminds me a little of the words 'sheep' and 'ship', not a whole lot of difference, but enough to differentiate woolly animals from contraptions that sail on the sea!

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Russian is a tough language to study (are you taking it at Princeton, judging from the origin of that lesson file, or just studying it yourself?). And your pronounciation is indeed very good for someone who's studied for just a couple of weeks. Amazing, really. Keep it up, and good luck!

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Thank you!! :)

And no, I'm not from Princeton.. I live in Singapore, and I just happened to find that link from surfing in Russian-learning forums while looking for help in self-studying. :P

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All the more impressive. Well done. Being a native Russian speaker I often can't wrap my mind around how people can learn the language. It's gotta be one of the hardest to learn, along Japanese.

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http://users.livejournal.com/_mria/

Can I just add my amusement at the fact that the mp3 (from Princeton, presumably) gives the students a total pat on the back?

"Princeton? Wow. She must be a genius!"

What everyone else said about palatalization, as well. I didn't even really realize exactly what it was until I took a linguistics course since it seemed so natural to me.

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Yes it's from Princeton hehe... :P

Ahh! I am *nearly* hopeless at this palatalization part! It's really quite disheartening, but ah I better practice and listen more!

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http://users.livejournal.com/_mria/

It really is just practice! I used to think that I'd never master French pronunciation, but it's just a whole lot of repeating/drilling until it comes naturally and you don't have to think about it.

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Oh man, I just repeated 'опять' to my new Russian 'mentor' so many times wrong that I think he is going to kill/block me :P

I understand я is 'ya' so technically, if I don't think of the ь first, it's apyat? However, when I do try to palatalize it and I ended up with опеть... I swear!! Mandarin is easier XD

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http://users.livejournal.com/_mria/

Have you had anyone try to explain it in the physical aspects? That is, how you actually shape your mouth? It might be easier once you get the sound down and THEN try to apply it.

And I could never imagine learning a tonal language!

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Mandarin is easier
aha, and it needs just as much drilling to get the concept and natural prononcuation of tones there;)

As for palatalization, what about Mandarin qi and ji? To my mind they _are_ palatalized. Try to fix the the difference between qi and di (if I was taught right, the tongue doesn't move as a whole thing, only a part of it moves up) and you'll get this "palatalization thing". Just do the same movement of the same part of your tongue, pronouncing п, н, с and others and you'll get пь, нь, сь, ...
Hope I didn't confuse you more:)

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I just tried this: пь, нь, сь... And I sounded like a cavewoman! :p I have to be doing this wrong. I tried to go over мат and мать to try to figure that last part out and the second sounds like air is trying to escape, resulting in something that sounds vaguely like a forced 'mahts'.

Mandarin is just like OKAY KIDS THIS IS QI and this is JI, got it? There's no funky ь stuff to look out for ;) The words are just as they are, but there is a very high change that I'm just biased since I've been exposed to it since Day 1 hehe!

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I tried to go over мат and мать to try to figure that last part out and the second sounds like air is trying to escape, resulting in something that sounds vaguely like a forced 'mahts'.

Then, I think, you were close to right! Actually, if how I was taught to pronounce qi and the way you do it are the same, the first sound in qi is really very close to Russian ть, as close that you can forget about the difference.

Mandarin is just like OKAY KIDS THIS IS QI and this is JI, got it? There's no funky ь stuff to look out for ;)

The thing is, there is no funky ь stuff for us too;) As someone has written here, we don't even notice there can be any difficulty, it's sooo natural:) What is more, it's very difficult to teach our kids to pronounce ti and di and so on _without_ palatalization (when learning English, for example).

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the first sound in qi is really very close to Russian ть

SERIOUSLY?! Hahahaha! I'm all -Hey I Can Do That!- now :D I hope you don't mind if I ask this: in опять, it goes like 'ahpyets' with the ye like in the English yes, and the ts like in the end of мать. AmIRight? ^__^

Woohoo, I think I'm going to be learning Russian for a very very long time :D

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in опять, it goes like 'ahpyets' with the ye like in the English yes, and the ts like in the end of мать.

Well... ть is really the same. But the пя part is different: there is no "y" in it and я is not e. Pity we can't hear one another. But I'll try to explain.
When you pronounce qi in Mandarin, there is no "y" sound there, try to insert it and you'll hear the difference. The problem is, i is a narrow vowel, so it's rather easy to pronounce qi with soft (palatalized) t (for me, q=t'=ть). But a is very wide (which makes pronouncing пя more difficult than ти=qi). After пь it becomes more narrow, so the vowel sound in пат and пят sound different, я is not ya in any part.
Try the following. First, to find out how this я after a consonant sounds, work on тя, not пя - because you know how ть is pronounced. To do that right, pronounce qi (mind that it is not qyi, and it's natural for you) then qe (the same q but with a wider vowel, remember you still should not insert y there) then qa (as if it's your qia but without i/y sound, that's why I proposed to pronounce qi with and without y first, to feel that you can control this sound, do what you want with it).
When you get тя (that qa without i thing is just what we want, qa=тя), you know what this я after a consonant sound is. From the other hand, you can pronounce т - ть (Mandarin d - q) many times to feel what the tongue does to produce the difference. Now pronounce п and then make the same movement with your tongue as if for ть, and you'll get пь. At least I hope so... You can guess the next step is to join пь and that я after the consonant sound (I always add this "after the consonant" because at the beginning of the word or after a vowel it's the easy ya thing).

Ughf, this looks so complicated while it's really not. Orally it would be much quicker and easier:)

Unfortunately I not only can't make my own sound file but listen to yours either, so I can't check what you got and correct it if it's needed. Nevetherless, you'd better post more of your soundfiles here to be sure I haven't confused you to something wrong and non-Russian sounding:)

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And good luck!:)) Hope I won't discourage you from learning Russian with my long explanations;)

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No, no, not at all :) In fact, thank you very much for your patience in explaining this to me. I will keep practicing until I am better at this, as well as keep reading up so I understand this part well!

I am actually very nervous about recording myself because of inevitable embarrassment ^_^ I guess I need myself a real life Russian friend, a very sympathetic Russian online tutor, or a move to Russia hehe!

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zhirafov-nyet.livejournal.com

Привет всем.
«Привет всём» means "Hello everything" (or, if you prefer, all, but neuter and singular), as opposed to «привет всем», which means "hello all/everyone" (all in this case being plural).
Sorry. That was just buggin' me.

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Thank you for correcting me! All of you Russian things ha ha! :P I will keep this in mind! I'm not halfway into grammar yet, so I can barely tell the difference :)

About the з and э.. I think I was in too much of a hurry ^_^ Thanks once again!

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