(no subject)

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

Is my memory faulty, or are there some words where the мягкий знак (ь) represents an actual "y" sound instead of conveying information about the previous consonant?

Comments

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

It's your memory. Ь and Ы are completely different letters. It's ы that is the "y" sound.

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

I know b and bl are different. I mean, ьу becomes ю, ьа becomes я. So there has to be something going on there.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

Oooh, in that case, no. See below - ь never represents a sound, just palatalization. You'll never see ьу, ьа, ьо written anywhere in Russian, unless is a really bizarre foreign word. Why, have you seen such a word?

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Почтальон.

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Ах, пардон! Пропустил "foreign word" =)

[platonicus.livejournal.com]

Yes, there are some words (usually taken from French) where -ьо- means -йо- (бульон, e.g.)

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Ь can never define a syllable, it only signals palatalization or is purely orthographical.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Oh, I just realized you might be thinking of [j]. In the case of a consonant+soft vowel combination, it does indicate a full realization of [j].

Example:

The combination *ню would be pronounced [nʲu], with only a palatalized [n], whereas *нью would be pronounced [nju], with the sound we who speak English associate with the letter Y when it precedes a consonant.

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

Thank you, that's what I meant, sorry I phrased the question poorly. Can you think of any other words like that?

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Any third declension feminine singular noun in the instrumental case:
тенью [tʲenjʊ]
ночью [noʧjʊ]
тетрадью [tʲɪtradjʊ]
etc.

I can't think of any others of the top of my head at the moment, but they exist.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

A few more:

семья [sʲɪmja]
бельё [bʲɪljo]
жильё [ʒɨljo]
ожерелье [əʒɪrʲɛljɪ]

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Arg, on that last part I meant to write when it precedes a vowel.

[joliecanard.livejournal.com]

Any time a ь precedes a "soft" vowel (я и е ё ю) then you will get a [j] sound. Also works for ъ, as in объяснить.

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

Both ь has two functions, it y either "softens" or "separates" other sounds (or both). Like in the examples giantantattack wrote:
семья [sʲɪm'ja] - [m'] is soft, and you've got the [j] sound before [a].

But ъ has only the separating function, so in объяснить, объезд, подъезд etc. the [b] and [d] are NOT soft. They are just followed by [j].

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Good point. I seem to have left out the palatalization diacritic in the transcriptions before each [j].

To clarify, they should be:

[ˈtʲenʲjʊ]
[ˈnoʨjʊ]
[tʲɪˈtradʲjʊ]
[sʲɪmʲˈja]
[bʲɪlʲˈjo]
[ʒɨlʲˈjo]
[əʒɪˈrʲelʲjɪ]

[vargtimmen.livejournal.com]

You've all been extremely helpful!