Сделать тебе кофе?

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

I've noticed that in Russian it is possible to formulate a question using an infinitive at the beginning of a sentence.

For example, "Сделать тебе кофе?" - Shall I make you coffee?

Can someone give me some insight into the range of possibilities of such constructions?

Is this construction, for example, limited to a few specific perfective verbs?

Can you give other examples of this construction in action?

Thank you in advance for your input.

Comments

[p4i1.livejournal.com]

From my point of view
"Сделать тебе кофе?" is a simplified form of something like this: "Давай я сделаю тебе кофе". So basically infinitive here is a simplification of "Давай я" + perfect-in-the-future (Sorry, it do not know correct term for this).

I tried some examples of this using this schema and all sounded correct for me.
"Сходить за хлебом?" - "Давай я схожу за хлебом"
"Прочитать тебе книгу?" - "Давай я прочитаю тебе книгу"
"Перевести тебе на русский?" - "Давай я переведу тебе на русский"

[yyura.livejournal.com]

"Сходить за хлебом?" - "Давай я схожу за хлебом"
it seems that there is a slight difference in meaning for this kind of 2 constructions.
I think "Сходить за хлебом?" means approximately "I can go to buy bread. Should I, or not?"
"Давай я схожу за хлебом" sounds more affirmatively - "I offer you that I will go to buy bread. Don't you have any objections?"

[kegarawashii.livejournal.com]

that's more like it. with the infinitive construction you clear up whether the necessity exists - in case of which you do this or that.
with давай you offer help/whatever directly.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

It's pretty standard. It's not limited to just that verb.
More examples:
Показать вам дорогу до/к метро?
Объяснить тебе задачу?
Дать тебе вдолг?
ad infinitum...
I hope you know that often times you can just change the period to the question mark and change the intonation to make a question like in here:
Я сделаю тебе кофе. Я *сделаю* тебе кофе? The main emphasis here is on the action, сделаю, the secondary on кофе, to ask permission to make it. If you exchange the two emphasis, then you'll be effectively asking to confirm coffee as the drink, not the action of making a drink.
The same thing on the emphasis applies to your infinitive-based example.
And it doesn't have to be in the future (сделаю - future perfect). You can ask something like this in the present:
Я наливаю тебе чай?
Я выкидываю твою старую дырявую рубашку?
Literally meaning it's the last moment to make the decision otherwise the default/desired action will be taken shortly.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Yes. I've encountered instances of the "change the pitch/intonation" scenario.

Of course, when you're trying hard just to understand the words, paying close attention to the pitch/intonation for emphasis/meaning seems to be a secondary task.

Although, I've have learned that it is critical to proper comprehension of Russian sentences that you correctly assess sometimes seemingly subtle differences in pitch/intonation.

English has similar possibilities, but it seems to me that they are more pronounced, less subtle, easier to spot. Perhaps because they give more clues?

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Well, guess how I speak English :) The pronunciation and intonation are secondary and tertiary, though I'm trying to improve. At any rate it's important to differentiate in English the intonations in "pretty good" (to make a distinction between good and so-so) and "hot dog" (to make a distinction between a dog and food) and put the stress onto the right syllable of words like "address" (depending on whether it goes as noun or as verb). To me all these things are subtle, perhaps because there's usually enough information to get the right meaning anyway. But take these things alone and you won't tell which is which without an a priori knowledge or really good guess.

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

It is exactly how you translated it: "Shall I..."
A suggestion, an offer.

[warpod.livejournal.com]

I think it is like the modal verb is omitted (because it is not needed)
"надо сделать тебе кофе?"

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Yes. I think it will be helpful for understanding such sentences to imagine that the modal has been omitted.

Do you imagine that such sentences are therefore simply polite offers that one is not really expected to accept in all instances?

[oryx_and_crake]

No, I don't think that these sentences are simply polite offers that are not really supposed to be accepted. At least there is nothing in the construction itself to hint on that.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

So this construction is not per se a choice of those wishing to make a polite request that they do not really expect you to accept?

[oryx_and_crake]

No. The only thing I can say about this construction is that it is pretty informal. It is used in everyday speech but hardly anywhere else. E.g. I would ask my mother: "Сходить за хлебом?" but I would write to business partners: "Пожалуйста, сообщите, должны ли мы произвести закупки оборудования."

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

OK. So, basically informal. Is it suitable to say to a business partner "Сделать вам кофе?"

[oryx_and_crake]

I guess so. E.g. a waiter in a restaurant can ask "Подать вам кофе до еды или после?"

[yyura.livejournal.com]

More examples:
Мне уйти? (Should I leave?)
Им подождать еще немного? (Would they wait a little bit more?)
Ему приходить к вам лично? (Would he visit you personally?)

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

Good examples all. One slight correction to the English part:

Им подождать еще немного? (Should they wait a little bit more?) (Ought they to wait...?)
Ему приходить к вам лично? (Should he visit you personally?) (Ought he to visit...?)

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

It's not always "offer pure and simple". Fo example:
Что ж теперь, простить его? - well, then, should I forgive him?

And we've got a number of set expressions with the seame construction:

Застрелиться и не жить? - literally: "shoot myself and stop living?" -it means smth like "The situation is not so terrible, after all, I can carry on"

[msk01.livejournal.com]

Быть или не быть? - вот в чем вопрос!

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

So, how would one explain the infinitive in the constrution:

"Что делать?"

[oryx_and_crake]

What [shall we] do?

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the second person singular can also be used in similar constructions.
E.g. "Что поделаешь?" or "Ну что ты будешь делать!" do not mean "What are YOU going to do" but "What can one do?", or, rather, "There is nothing one can do about it."

[yurka-spb.livejournal.com]

But "что поделываешь?" does mean "what are you doing?".
I can hardly explain the difference.

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

Поделываешь is not an infinitive. The construction you're talking about is COMPLETELY different. It's just a question, a usual one.
Поделываешь is derived from поделывать, imperfective verb.
Поделать is its perfective pair. These two are different verbs. That's the difference:)

[yurka-spb.livejournal.com]

Yes you are certainly right. Although поделаешь in "Что поделаешь?" is neither infinitive, so it's also a different construction than discussed in the first post.

[yurka-spb.livejournal.com]

And sorry for messing these things.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I've made a note of this.

This seems to correspond to the modern English use of "you" to represent "one" as a reference to some general, anonymous entity.

I'm told that in Russian this a a perfectly acceptable construction. In German, using the second person singular in this manner may be considered a lower class speech pattern by some. In English, this used to be the case, but I think it has become generally acceptable for most purposes.

For example, depending on context, "You never know what he'll do" can be considered to be the same as, "One never knows what he'll do".

In either case you are not referring to anyone in particular, but simply to the impersonal, anonymous "general ruling opinion".

[oryx_and_crake]

modern English use of "you" to represent "one" as a reference to some general, anonymous entity
--
yes, that's exactly what I was trying to describe

[old-radist.livejournal.com]

>> In German, using the second person singular in this manner may be considered a lower class speech pattern by some.

Really? I should put more attention on it, because I use such constructions often.

[freiburg234.livejournal.com]

Well, as you know, in Germany, there are the so-called, "traditionally educated classes", i.e. Bildungsbuergertum - And then there's everyone else, euphemistically called "socially weak classes", i.e. sozial schwache Klassen.

One of the ways that Bildungsbuerger distinguish themselves from others is by displaying a preference for certain speech patterns. The given example is just one commonly cited pattern.

Of course, for native Russian speakers, this can be a handicap, as in Russian the generalised "ты" is has no connotations regarding social background. Unlike in the generalised German "du".

The caveat is, of course, that languages evolve. So what was frowned upon yesterday can become tomorrow's standard, especially as demographics set in and values change.