both

[soidisantfille.livejournal.com]

Probably a silly question but if you have two options of different genders in a sentence, like "вы любите мясо или рыба?", how do you use "both" in Russian? Is it still "oбa"?

Comments

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>"вы любите мясо или рыба?"
correct: "вы любите мясо или рыбу"?

>how do you use "both" in Russian? Is it still "oбa"?

Not in this case: in this case it's "и то, и другое".

[soidisantfille.livejournal.com]

So, to clarify, I use "и то, и другое" when I am presented with two options? And "oба" or "oбе" with one thing, like "oбе девушки"?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

When you are presented with two options of different gender, like here (мясо is neutral, рыба is feminine) - definitely so.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Come to think of it, it's not just gender, it's contable/uncountable thing as well. Мясо and рыба here is not just this exact piece of meat and that exact fish, it's just type of food, therefore uncountable, so it can't be "оба", only "и то, и другое".

[metabubble.livejournal.com]

Variants of "Both" answer:
"Я люблю и то, и то"
"Я люблю и то, и другое"
"Я люблю и мясо, и рыбу"
"я люблю оба продукта"

[piggy-toy.livejournal.com]

correct question would be "вы любите мясо или рыбу?" (родительный падеж).
correct answer would be either "и то, и другое" or "и то, и то", whithout "оба" in any form at all.

i don't really know why, but not because of gender: in reply to "вы любите рыбу или курицу?" (same gender) you equally cannot use "обе" in reply.

perhaps it depends on whether the subject is animate or not, because in reply to "вы любите сына или дочь?" you can say "обоих".

[bruja-aprendiza.livejournal.com]

>"вы любите мясо или рыбу?" (родительный падеж)
винительный.

[piggy-toy.livejournal.com]

oops.
you're right.

mea culpa, mea maxima culpa.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

...est :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>i don't really know why, but not because of gender: in reply to "вы любите рыбу или курицу?" (same gender) you equally cannot use "обе" in reply

Рыба or курица in this case aren't single things or persons, right? They are type of food. If it can't be counted, it can't be оба or обе, only и то, и другое.

I would not recommend "и то, и то", since it's much more colloquial than "и то, и другое".

[piggy-toy.livejournal.com]

oh, good point.

[joliecanard.livejournal.com]

I hate when I say things over and over and over again ("и то, и то") and no one ever mentions that that's colloquial and I might want to say "и то, и другое".

Thanks, wolk_off :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, don't be surprised -- those subtle nuances are normally neglected even by some (well, some many, he-he-he) native speakers. Wait a couple of hours and you'll most likely see a couple of angry comments like "why the Heck are you calling "и то, и то" colloquial - I use it all the time!" :)))

[gorgeous-yulia.livejournal.com]

I agree with piggy_toy: 'it depends on whether the subject is animate or not, because in reply to "вы любите сына или дочь?" you can say "обоих".'

In a sentence: 'Вы предпочитаете газеты или книги?' - you cannot answer 'Обе' either, even though they can be sort of counted. In the question 'do you like smth' - 'smth' is usually general notion so it cannot be counted. In a sentence: 'Ты будешь йогурт или торт?' it becomes specific and therefore you can count it as you are offering a particular piece of a cake and a specific yogurt. still you cannot answer: 'оба'. Therefore the choice between 'оба, обе' и 'то, и другое' depends only on whether the subject is animate or inanimate.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

How on earth can you cound newspapers or books --- in general? What do you prefer, books IN GENERAL or newspapers IN GENERAL? The question has nothing to do with the quantity of copies, it's about WHAT TYPE of reading do you prefer. People or animals also can be "somehow" counted, but nobody would say "оба" when asked, who did that - people or animals (кто сделал это - люди или звери?).

[orloffm.livejournal.com]

In case of different genders: if there are two girls, it's "обе", otherwise it's always "оба". For example, "Маша и Вася оба купили воду". But it sounds quite strange, so "both" is in general not used in such cases, it's even better to say "Маша и Вася каждый купили воду".

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

"Маша и Вася каждый купили воду" obviously sounds no less strange than "Маша и Вася оба купили воду", especially the "каждый купили" part which sounds simply illiterate. "И Маша, и Вася купили воду" - why not put it simple?

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

I'd go for "Маша и Вася купили по стакану воды"