MOTION VERBS

[swiggett.livejournal.com]

Hello, I have a question that will probably make me sound rather dense, but here goes:
I have a really hard time deciding when to use determinate verses indeterminate motion verbs, especially when prefixed. I know the rules, and when doing home assignments, am constantly referencing said rules to 'make sure' I'm thinking correctly. Inevitably, though, once in class, all that work goes down the drain, b/c whatever logic I used gets me the wrong or 'less preferred' verb. I would like to fully understand these things, and was wondering if anyone hear had any insight or studying techniques or techniques for deciding determinate verses indeterminate.

I know, sounds very basic, but I've basically been told to forget what was learned in first couple of years regarding verbs of motion, and to relearn it all from scratch... that would be a rant in a different post, though.
Thank you.

Comments

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

Difficult to answer because your question encompasses too much. Could you be a little more specific?

Do you mean e.g. идти vs ходить, лететь vs летать?

The rule is simple: if you are describing something what you are doing now and with some clear purpose, you are using the 1st verb of the pair: Я иду в школу - I am going to the school (I am doing it NOW). Я хожу в школу - I go to the school (and do it every day for some time already). Я хожу - I (can) walk (could be used if you e.g. could not walk for quite a time because of the illness of whatever). Я иду - I am going (somewhere specifically).

Ditto with лечу - летаю: Я лечу - I am going by plane/rushing along to somewhere; Я летаю - wow, I can fly! Я лечу на Луну - I am flying to the Moon (and my name is Neil Armstrong); Я летаю на Луну - I fly to the moon (I am living in the year 3000 and spending my weekends over there; or just dreaming about the flight now and then).

[swiggett.livejournal.com]

I guess my main problem is how I conceptualize things. I am a master at talking myself out of ideas/second guessing myself. So, when I am confronted with translation drills or fill-in-the-blank-with-correct-motion verb, especially in the context of a story, I can make cases in my head for either.
I'm going to keep at it, though, and one day, I will understand.

[mangiami.livejournal.com]

My teacher always chastizes us for just that: thinking too much. Try to go with your intuition and the simplest interpretations, and you'll usually be right.

[fox-c.livejournal.com]

It is quite a tricky subject. I've worked with this book before and found it to be *very* helpful: Russian Motion Verbs for Intermediate Students (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0300064136/sr=8-1/qid=1141751157/ref=pd_bbs_1/103-9509399-4091836?%5Fencoding=UTF8).

Unfortunately, I also noticed the price has doubled since I bought it. Maybe your library will have it or can get it for you.

[swiggett.livejournal.com]

Thanks! I know a lot of my classmates struggle with these as well, so I know I'm not alone, but still feel hmm... frustrated.

[mangiami.livejournal.com]

Things that helped me are these:

determinate = unidirectional = you can take a picture of it because it's an observable one way process

indeterminate = multidirectional = you can't take a picture of it, because the meaning is that it's going without aim, habitually, or just in general and you can't capture that in a photo*




*without considerable artistic interpretation, that is

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I found it a lot easier to do those kinds of exercises when they were paragraphs or whole stories, because then the context is clear. If you only have one blank in a sentence, they usually have to give you a really obvious clue so that there is only one right answer, and real life is not always that clear-cut.

I honestly only got all that straightened out when my instructor in SPb spent a full, torturous month on verbs of motion, but I can mostly handle them now. Mostly reading and living there helped me sort them out (both very high-context vs. fill-in-the-blank which is generally pretty low-context).

[swiggett.livejournal.com]

Thanks, our current unit [in the US...] I think will cover a month, so hopefully between that, and outside conversation/study, I'll get a better handle on them.
Thanks.