(no subject)

[scarlet1983.livejournal.com]

Hi everyone,

I just joined your community. About six or seven weeks ago I started learning Russian at university and I really enjoy it. Every time we start a new chapter I think I'll never be able to understand a word of it, but in the end I always do =) So I know the alphabet, basic rules for gender and declination, conjugation of verbs, although sometimes I still don't get why they squeeze in letters, like with to love. I'm saying it in English 'cause I have trouble typing in Cyrillic and transliteration wouldn't work, you wouldn't understand my way of transliterating 'cause I'm Dutch ;-). For example, 'ch' in Dutch sounds like the Russian 'x' (the transliteration of the Tatu cd doesn't really make sense for me ;-)) This week we started on aspect. And I'm so glad I'm a student of English, because that's so much more useful when trying to figure out aspect than Dutch. =)

Have to go to work now, but I'll be back to read your archive ;-) Very useful =)

Bye!

Comments

[kevin-mcalister.livejournal.com]

Yeah! You're welcome!
Добро пожаловать! Всегда рады!

[viric.livejournal.com]

Welcome :)

Anyway... can you explain, why English makes your learning simpler or easier? :) Wouldn't any other language help in the same way?

[scarlet1983.livejournal.com]

Because English makes a difference between acts that are completed and those that are still happening. Dutch is very loose when it comes to tense. We have imperfect and perfect tense, but they mean the same, so "I have seen" and "I saw" mean exactly the same here. We usually use present tense to talk about future events (literally e.g. "I go to the market tomorrow"), just not in official texts or when you want to emphasise something, and it's not uncommon for people to use present tense for things in the past either, although most languages have something like that (like Latin praesens historicum). So initially it's a bit difficult for us to understand the difference between past simple and past perfect. And in English you also have this rule to use continuous for habits, repetition, etc. which is also the case in Russian. Dutch also doesn't have cases, and gender is not that important here. We do have different articles for words of a different gender ('de' for m/f and 'het' for n), but it doesn't affect the adjectives. And with us it doesn't matter who says something, like with я рад(а) тебя видеть, we don't have that.
We say "where can I pay", but Russians ask куда платить. Dutch also doesn't use plural for nouns in the case of money or weight. You do say "two books," but those books might cost "twenty euro" or you can weigh 80 kilo. In Russian it's obviously much more complicated with singular, 'dualis' and plural.

I speak Dutch and English fluently, my German is okay, and I've had French, Latin, ancient Greek and Spanish in secondary school, so there's always something for me to compare Russian to. I already knew declination and case from Latin, and German also has more of a difference between place and direction (we don't... or at least, we're not aware of it, since we don't have case), French also has feminine adjectives, etc. I'm really glad that I already 'know' all those languages, it certainly helps a lot.

прикольно

[viric.livejournal.com]

Amusing. Long ago I looked for Carmen San Diego using my computer, and I finally find her in LJ ;)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Welcome aboard! добро пожаловать на борт :)

[tessa-m.livejournal.com]

Hello, Dutch :)
Welcome!!!

I like Holland very much!!! I've been there several times.
Удачи!!!

[brocster.livejournal.com]

Let me just toss in my own Добро пожaловaть! to welcome you here.

Just out of curiosity, what did you mean by the comment:

??

Is there something strange about the verb любить that doesn't make sense to you? Which letters do you feel have been been "squeezed in"?

Oh, and as for using Dutch transliteration, go for it. There are (already) so many various transliteration systems, that most of us are used to seeing all kinds of variations. Or, of course, you could try using a more English-based system (where, usually, х = "kh", ш = "sh", ч = "ch", щ = "shch", я = "ya" (or "ia"... but also "ja", for linguists), ы = "y", and ь/ъ = '/" (e.g., любить = lyubit', съесть = s"est'), etc.)

Tot ziens!

- Andrew : )

[scarlet1983.livejournal.com]

I meant the L in the first person singular, люблю. I don't really know when or why they sqeeze in an extra letter there or in other cases too although this is the only one I can think of atm.

As for transliteration, you wouldn't understand our Dutch way I think, just as I don't get your way of doing it (even though I speak English fluently, I have trouble figuring out how to pronounce things based on English transliteration). In Dutch:

х = "ch", ш = "sj", ч = "tsj", щ = "sjtsj", я = "ja", у = "oe"

I think pronounciation is a lot easier for us, because in English you don't have a х sound, and you are used to having voiced sounds at the end of a word. With us 'pad' and 'pat' sound the same anyway. Which is why the average cloggy will always talk about 'crap salat' ;) (that was one of the funniest things to hear people struggle with during speech lessons haha... apart from 'I bet there's a bad bat in my bed' which most Dutch pronounce as 'I bet there's a bet bet in my bet').

I'll just have to learn to type Russian I guess. I tried putting stickers on my keyboard but that didn't work...

[brocster.livejournal.com]

Aha! Now I understand what you mean. It's actually not as (potentially) strange as it might seem. In Russian verbs, it occurs in the first-person singular form (the я form) after labial consonants = б, п, м, в, ф. For example:

любить --> люблю
торопить --> тороплю
знaкомить --> знaкомлю
готовить --> готовлю
грaфить --> грaфлю

This same process is also seen in past passive participles (don't worry about these yet):
влюблённый ([having fallen] in love),

nouns formed from verbs:
приготовление,

and (derived or secondary) imperfective verbs (don't worry yet about this one either, although you should start seeing it soon): приготовить --> приготaвливaть.

From what (VERY) little I know about Dutch, this process is somewhat similar to (although, obviously, not the same as) the formation of diminutives in Dutch. You have the "regular":

huis --> huisje

BUT

boom --> boompje, right?

Why add a "p" (as opposed to some other consonant)? (And compare "boompje" to boon --> boontje -- why "t" instead of "p" here?) It all has to do with "place of articulation" -- in other words, what part(s) of the mouth is/are used to form the sound(s) in question. It's natural for "added" sounds to come in during pronunciation when they are formed in the same area in the mouth. For example, in everyday "relaxed" speech, the word "something" will usually have a slight "p" sound between "some-" and "-thing". The same process occurs in "warmth" and other words as well. We just don't think about it.

Anyway, don't get too stressed out about it. You'll get used to the various softening alternations in Russian pretty quickly, and then it'll become second nature for you.


As for typing in Cyrillic, you might want to take a look at this URL (www.microsoft.com/globaldev/tools/msklc.mspx), assuming you're using Windows, for a program that will let you create your OWN keyboard layout. That way, you can put the Cyrillic letters wherever they make sense for YOU.

Hope that helps.

- Andrew : )

P.S. -- Oh, as to the transliteration system you use, we might not all be familiar with щ = "sjtsj", but I think, given some context, we could probably figure out what you're talking about. Just a thought. : )

P.P.S. -- I love your "crap salat" example. I can't tell you the number of times I've run into that with students learning English. Although, in written Russian, we often ran into the problem of reading дaвно as гaвно (normally spelled говно), due to the whole "lower-case Russian D = lower-case English G" situation. : )

[scarlet1983.livejournal.com]

Okay, thank you, that makes sense. And it's not that difficult either, so it shouldn't be a problem anymore then.

I still get confused sometimes when I have to read something in a book after reading something handwritten or the other way around, especially with the m & t.

I've practised so much, sometimes I even use H and M instead of n and t in Dutch. =D

Hello, Dutch :)

[tessa-m.livejournal.com]

Welcome!!!

I like Holland very much!!! I've been there several times.
Удачи!!!

[kehlen-crow.livejournal.com]

Welcome!!!

And I'm so glad I'm a student of English, because that's so much more useful when trying to figure out aspect than Dutch. - right you are - it is very difficult to find a native speaker speaking you language when a thousand time easier to find one speaking English :D