[identity profile] gjertsen.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
is there a way to remember (or a rule) about when verbs end with -овать?
It seems as if words that appear to be taken from english have this ending more often than not:
игнорировать (to ignore)
импотириовать (to inform)
рисковать (to risk)
резервировать (to reserve)
Is this the case?
correction:
информировать = to inform
импортировать = to import
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Date: 2005-09-30 08:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
импотириовать (to inform)
There is no such word in Russian. To inform is информировать.

All those verbs were acquired not from English (english is relatively late influence,) but from French, German and Latin during 18th-early 19th century.

Date: 2005-09-30 08:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
импотириовать= to import.

nope, to import is not импотириовать (again, there is no such word in Russian,) but импортировать :)

Date: 2005-09-30 08:36 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Oh, there's plenty of early (late 17th - early 18th century) German and Dutch borrowings in Russian, thanks to Peter the Great who was really fond of those two languages. Шлагбаум (Schlagbaum, a barrier,) галстук (Halstuch, a tie,) ротмистр (Rittmeister, a lieutenant, replaced by лейтенант by now,) картофель, etc. etc. etc.

Date: 2005-09-30 08:45 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
The verbs end with -овать when they are in infinitive. (However, not all verbs in infinitive end with -овать.) I am afraid that there is not any other rule.

If you look into this further, you could see that the verbs ending with -овать are usually derived from nouns

рифма - рифмовать (a rhyme - to rhyme)
колесо - колесовать (a wheel - to torture on a wheel)

on the other hand, the verb ending in -ировать are often made of borrowed (foreign) verbs, e.g.

to import (English) - импортировать
épater (French) - эпатировать

etc.

but I have no idea whether this is what you had in mind and whether this helps you in any way.


Date: 2005-09-30 08:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
I doubt that -овать ALWAYS marks a verb borrowed from Western languages, since there's plenty of native Russian verbs with the same suffix (баловать, to spoil or to pamper; толковать, to interpret/to explain; бытовать, to occur, to take place -- as if in "в народе бытовали суеверия, связанные с черными кошками" - superstitions connected with black cats used to take place among the people, etc. etc. etc.)
If there is a suffix that certainly SHRIEKS "I mark a Westernized Russian verb!!!" -- that's -изировать: минимизировать, драматизировать, каталогизировать, американизировать, etc. (I think their meanings must be obvious to English speakers :)))

Date: 2005-09-30 08:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ilia-yasny.livejournal.com
In this case from Italian. Note that many French borrowings were adopted through Poland (in 16-18th centuries), that's why they have been distorted someway.
E.g., Paris became Париж

Date: 2005-09-30 09:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Right, pomme d'or :) And апельсин (Apfelsin, "Chinese Apple" - an orange) is, again, from German.
The words for beets (свёкла) and carrots (морковь) are from Greek, though (acquired really early, like 13th century.)

Date: 2005-09-30 09:05 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
No, there is no such verb, but there is конфирмовать(ся) and конфирмация (to confirm/confirmation, only when speaking of the Catholic rite).

Date: 2005-09-30 09:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
To make things worse, "to confim" can be either утвердить or подтвердить, depending on the context; and there IS a noun (not verb!) "конфирмация", which does NOT mean подтверждение or утверждение, but ONLY the Roman Catholic ritual of confirmation! (in Russian Orthodox Church, confirmation and baptism happen simultaneously, and Orthodox confirmation is called миропомазание).

Date: 2005-09-30 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nemica.livejournal.com
Wow, I had no idea about the origin of свёкла and морковь!

Date: 2005-09-30 09:20 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
крестить(ся) is from крест (cross) - meaning either to baptize or to cross oneself.
On the other hand, крестьянин is most possibly a distorted христианин (a Christian) - simple folk might assume that it means "крещеный человек, тот, кто крестится" (a baptized person).

Date: 2005-09-30 09:23 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
And no, I don't think that крестьянин is used any more, though I might be mistaken. It was definitely abolished at the Soviet era when there were no individual farmers/landowners any more but all land belonged to so-called collective farms (колхоз) and state farms (совхоз). The people who lived and worked in these were called колхозники. Now there are individual landowners again but I am not sure what they are called.

Date: 2005-09-30 09:36 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
I think that товарищ is really outdated. As to крестьянин, I made a search on Yandex and got some quite up-to-date links about current events where people living in the country are called крестьяне, e.g. this one http://www.newsru.com/russia/02jul2002/aickov2.html

Date: 2005-09-30 09:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Брокколи is certainly Italian, and so is артишок (articiocco).
As of редис, it's a funny story. Redish took its Russian name from French (late 19th century) "radis", which came from Latin "radix" (a root: compare with its another derivative, English "radical"!). Why Russians put an Е instead an А in "radis"? Because they already had "редька", "black redish"/"gros radis", acquired form German in the 16th century. German word for black redish was Redik then, and it came from... Latin "radix" :)

Date: 2005-09-30 09:38 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Besides, if you are going to read Russian classical literature or, for example, study the XX century history of Russia, you should know the word крестьянин anyway.
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