(no subject)

[lebeauecureuil.livejournal.com]

HELP!
I'm learning Russian, but for the life of me I do not understand how to do flapped Rs!

I've tried everything, and i'm about to give up. Tips anyone? I'd greatly appreciate it.

Comments

[arrestthisman.livejournal.com]

It's what your tongue does when you say the t's in butter. Try it.

[lebeauecureuil.livejournal.com]

it just sounds like a t...

[arrestthisman.livejournal.com]

it's different from t because it's not enunciated. if you overpronounce the t, it's a clear t, but in the case of butter it's just a tap on the roof of your mouth. try to isolate that noise, and then try saying it alone. you'll be surprised how it makes sense as being both a t-sound for us and an r for the russians...

[arrestthisman.livejournal.com]

ok, ok, i am outvoted.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Flapped Rs?

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

They're more commonly called "rolled" r's - when the tongue hits the top of your mouth and your r's get trilled a little.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Ahh, those things. Yeah. It's definitely not like "t" in "butter".

I don't think I can be of much help on how to pronounce them, though.

[damiel.livejournal.com]

If you're a speaker of North American English, then you already have flapped R's in your dialect. Butter, petty, pretty, utter, otter, udder, letter etc. all contain a pretty close sound to what you need to produce. (Don't confuse spelling with sound. In NA English that sound is not represented with the letter R.)

This is different from rolled R's, which are missing from North American English.

[lebeauecureuil.livejournal.com]

But that sounds nothing like what it's supposed to sound like.
I tried those for where a flapped R is supposed to be in a Russian word, but it's just....not right. at all.

[old-radist.livejournal.com]

Please not worry! That is definitely not the greatest problem.
I'm a native speaker, but I've got it really correct wenn I was 18-19 years old. °-)))

[lebeauecureuil.livejournal.com]

Argh. I'm so lost.

[damiel.livejournal.com]

What Russian words are you trying to pronounce?

[lebeauecureuil.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty good with pronouncing all of the other letters. I'm just learning Russian, so obviously I'm not perfect...but I get the jist of the alphabet. Just the flapped R sound(or letter P, rather) is the most difficult for me. I cannot seem to grasp it at all. I can do the French R just fine, but that's not the same. =\

Ah ha! French R

[fox-c.livejournal.com]

French Rs are commonly rolled at the back of your throat (at least the way I've heard French people do it), now try to move that sensation from the back of your tongue to the front.

mricon is right, this is really hard to do written. Another good way is to just listen to A LOT of Russian. Singing along with song lyrics is a good way to practice your letter sounds =).

Re: Ah ha! French R

[kart.livejournal.com]

French R's are sort of a weird glottal/fricative sound, at least to my weak understanding of French ;)

So, there are at least five kinds of R in the world (maybe more?)
1. Tapped R.
2. Rolled R.
3. American style soft semivowel R.
4. French (sometimes German) "back of the throat" R.
5. Japanese intermediate L/R consonant, with a weak tap.

[mricon.livejournal.com]

Phonetics lessons are not generally well-conveyed via blog entries. :)

[kart.livejournal.com]

There is a difference between a flapped/tapped single R and a rolled R.

For a single tap, just tap the top/front part of your tongue to the top of your hard palate just behind your front teeth.

For a rolled R, keep the tip of your tongue neutral and breathe so that the back edge of your soft palate flaps in the wind.

There's no difference in meaning between a tapped or a rolled R in Russian, and it just depends on how you speak, how fast you're talking, the local dialect, etc. (Though I'm sure the native experts know more ;)

In some other languages though, you have to be sure. The Spanish word pero (but) has a tapped R, while the word perro (dog) has a rolled R. It's easy enough to tell by context, but the proper pronounciation requires a distinction between regular R's and rolled R's.

[battersby.livejournal.com]

in spanish class, I had to do these "machine gunner" exercizes. that "ra-ta-tat" noise, but we had to do it with the "r" emphasized. another exercize was to try to purr like a cat. this may help.

[serialcondition.livejournal.com]

you should go to Tim Horton's for practice

[adverte.livejournal.com]

чего он хочет то? :)