since we're talking tattoos...

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

Of which I have a few...
One of my ideas for a tattoo is an (artistically rendered) letter ж. For two reasons basically, one because it's the most beautiful letter in the russian language both in sound and appearance and could make a really great tattoo. The other is the basis for my question. I'm under the impression that ж could be understood as a kind of shorthand for "woman." This comes mostly from a couple of moscow cafes I've been in that had just ж on the door of the women's bathroom. However, it's also possible that that's just shorthand for "ladies' room" and in that case I wouldn't necessarily want that as a tattoo...am I wrong to understand this letter as a symbol for women in russian? If not, is there one? Feelings about tattoos in general aside, what would a native russian speaker percieve as the meaning of such a tattoo?

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

That's what is normally written on the ladies' rooms' doors, yes. I would say that the standalone Ж letter's connotation that first springs to mind is a ladies' room, not women as such.

Another ready connotation for Ж is жопа (ass/asshole). Well, maybe I am dirty-minded, but all in all, I would not recommend such a tattoo.

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

thanks. i was worried that might be the case...a shame though, you could a lot of really beautiful things with that letter...

[mricon.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I second that. The first thing I think of when I see a standalone "Ж" is "someone being too polite to actually write out 'жопа'".

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

well is there a russian symbol that stands for women? I guess in english it's the venus symbol, which isn't english at all.

[welgar.livejournal.com]

In fact "Ж" isn't just a shorthand for "женский (туалет)" - ladies room. It is also a shorthand for "жопа" - ass. So this is not the safest letter to use. ;-)

However, in case of tattoo, I think it's quite ok. I'd personally think that the person's name (or their girl/boyfriend's name) starts with Ж, and wouldn't mind.

[mricon.livejournal.com]

Mirror of Venus is not English -- it's a standard symbol used in sciences to designate "female." Hence, it's used in Russia, too, but almost purely in biology.

[welgar.livejournal.com]

I think Ж is the symbol for both ladies rooms (женские туалеты) and female sex (женский пол).

Venus symbol isn't used that often. Normally, it is associated with medicine or sex (and is used together with Mars symbol).

[mricon.livejournal.com]

If you really want a Russia-related tattoo that won't have odd connotations, I suggest you pick something from the Glagolitic Alphabet (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_alphabet). It'll give you something to talk about. :)

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

well it was adopted at some point as a simple of american feminism. If someone asked me for a shorthand symbol for women in "english" I'd probably say the venus symbol, as it would be universally understood, at least by American speakers. I know that feminism has a totally different history in Russia, I guess was just curious if there was a symbol associated with that. ж seemed like a natural to me (though I had no idea about the "жопа" association.)

thanks!

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

fascinating link, thanks a lot.

[ex-wild-lynx729.livejournal.com]

жж=lj, ж=ass

Its a Bad symbol for tattoo!

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

well, my other favorite russian letter is й. any bad associations with that one, lol? :)

[mricon.livejournal.com]

Yes, it's the last letter in that other common swear word. :)

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

oh hell. I think it's back to the drawing board...;)

[zloizloi.livejournal.com]

rotfl.. letters Б and Г are not good, either :)

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Rats! I was able to figure out "Б"... but what which word does "Г" belong to?

[serialcondition.livejournal.com]

excellent suggestion

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Actually, nvrmd, my brain's a bit slow this morning))) But really, is any letter safe from swear words?

[arpad.livejournal.com]

Rule of thumb - never use letters of any language (include your own) as a safe theme for tattoo. A number of unwanted association is too high to predict.

[dalyeth-ok.livejournal.com]

Я
or Ю:)

[ex-wild-lynx729.livejournal.com]

Yes, mricon is right))
And letters П, Х, and maybe C is not good to. Maybe you'll try to use old russian letter ѣ ? It will be wery russian and absolutely without bad associations. (http://www.livejournal.com/community/ijitsa_ru/27904.html#cutid1)

[dalyeth-ok.livejournal.com]

it is the s-word :)

[yozhevich.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure where in Petersburg I saw it, but there bathrooms were the Ж и М were made to look like figures of men and women. That would be cute! Though, I hope no one would jiggle your handle to see if you're free... or perhaps that's what you're going for ;)

[noser.livejournal.com]

Ъ, of course!

An excellent suggestion!

[mithgol.livejournal.com]

I second that.
ѣ

[onodera.livejournal.com]

бл-ѣ?

[ex-wild-lynx729.livejournal.com]

)) never heard about that)

[mithgol.livejournal.com]

Nonsense. Why?

[apakin.livejournal.com]

I have to agree about little number of safety letters. Also I don't see the sense of tattoos like "М", "А" and so on, 'cause they're multi-alphabetical. I think the best choice is "Ё"

[apakin.livejournal.com]

or "Ы"

[the-toad.livejournal.com]

The latter is much better. With old russian computers and keyboards, and Unix-based OS'es, occasional switching from English to Russian normally turned "Y" into "Ы". Taking into account typical program requests like "Y(es)/N(o)", "Ы" has become quite popular responce meaning "yes" :-)

[apakin.livejournal.com]

Там вообще были приколы типа "Дежыце бусы", "Инжалид Дежыце" and so on

[the-toad.livejournal.com]

Да-да. "Цопыригхт" и прочие. Помню-помню. Я сам тогда программы на Пасцале писал, мне ли не помнить ;-)

[waxtep.livejournal.com]

Hmmm, what about "ытить" or "ёб твою мать" ? Both letters are definitely bad.