An hour and a half

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

I'd like to warn you about one slight difference between English (as well as some other European) and Russian the so called "irregular fractions", that is, which have numerator greater than denominator, and thus, are more than a unit. The difference concerns only fractions when used together with a noun that is being counted (examples follow).

The English tradition is to read them following the scheme:
integer part - noun - "and" - fractional part

The main example:
- 90 minutes is said as *subj*: one hour and a half

Sometimes this tradition spreads also to "hundred", "thousand" and other words:
- 2,500 = "two thousand and a half" (i believe this to be rare, though :)

In Russian you never name a noun before the whole fraction is named. That is, one should use the scheme:
integer part - fractional part - noun

The main example:
- 90 минут - это один с половиной час,
or, more likely, "полтора часа".

Remember! The Russian has the special word for 3/2: полторá (declined irregularly; i post the declination if you will be liking me to)

The second example:
- две с половиной тысячи.

Note also, that with "a half" we usually use the "с" pronoun, instrumental case follows. If the fractional part is other than a half, we use the "и" conjunction:

- Две и две трети ноги - это не так уж мало!
- Two legs and two thirds is not what you call "a few"!

update. Find out more in comments!

Comments

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

that's what i was afraid of ^___^

maybe, you have some other examples of the scheme? i couldn't think of ones in last twenty minutes...

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

so my post could be shortened to something like:

NB that English expression "a {time period} and a half" is translated with "полтора {интервала времени, род.п.}"

Some more on numbers

[oryx_and_crake]

I think this is good to know, too.
There is another word like полтора - полтораста which is 150 or a hundred and a half. For more than that, you use полтора + some power of ten (полторы if the word for power of ten is feminine)
e.g.
1,500 - полторы тысячи (тысяча is feminine)
1,500,000 - полтора миллиона (миллион is masculine)
полторы сотни for 150 is also acceptable.

Re: Some more on numbers

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

Does пол- mean half- or something? That’s also in the word полчаса, isn't it?

Re: Some more on numbers

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes, indeed. Пол- means половина (a half). You can use пол- with practically any countable noun, like

поллитра - half a liter
пол-лимона - half of a lemon
полчаса - half an hour
полшколы - half of the school (could mean either half of the school building or half of all people in the school)
полчеловека - half a man
пол-абзаца - half a paragraph
пол-Европы - half of the Europe

Please note that you should put a dash after пол if the original word begins with a vowel or with л. "Поллитра" is an exception to this rule.

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

and it's dashed before capitals too.

Re: Some more on numbers

[malaya-zemlya.livejournal.com]

Поллитра is a noun anyway ; )

Re: Some more on numbers

[oryx_and_crake]

Well, yes, maye it lost its dash on the way while turning into a noun :-)

P.S. Explanation of important cultural aspects for non-native speakers: поллитра (0.5 l) was a standard vodka bottle in USSR. So, if someone said "I brought/bought a поллитра", no sane person would ask "a half liter of what?" - it was vodka by default. All other liquids had to be named, e.g. поллитра масла (молока, whatever).

P.P.S. Поллитра was normally devoured "на троих", e.g. shared among three persons. This process was called "cообразить на троих", and the standard method of findong a drinking companion for this procedure was to ask: "третьим будешь?"

[aciel.livejournal.com]

For you Russians out there:

I don't think I've heard many Americans say one hour and a half. When they do, it sounds awkward. At least, it does to me.

I usually say one and a half hours, or two and a half thousand.

Ob_ivan, is there a place you'd recommend I go for translations of scientific words between Russian and English?

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

there're special dictionaries, but i have only heard of them, never seen one :)
we at mechs&maths dept at university study some words and expressions, but the experience of reading articles and attending conference talks is the most important for good specialist's language.

[aciel.livejournal.com]

In that case, could I ask a favor of you?

I am applying to work on the particle accelerator in Novosibirsk and should probably learn how to say such things as "particle accelerator" and "derivative" sometime this week.

I have an incomplete list of these words that I came up with on the bus this morning. Would you be willing to translate them for me?

I can't think what I could offer in return. But I would be very thankful.

[temcat.livejournal.com]

particle accelerator = ускоритель (элементарных) частиц; sometimes simply ускоритель

derivative = производная

Feel free to ask more. I'm a radiophysics major, though currently working as a translator.

[aciel.livejournal.com]

Radiophysics, as in the physics of radiation, or as in the physics of electromagnetic spectrum?

Okay, here's a list:
induction (weak, strong)
deduction
base case
inductive step
product
-cross
-dot
summation (sigma)
magnet/magnetic
charge
superconductor
wave
spectrum
oscilloscope
matter
antimatter
energy
mass
volume
square
power
square root
logarithm
matrix
variable
reaction
law
theorem
postulate
identity
vacuum
temperature
pressure
research
volatile

As many or as few as you like. Much appreciation; спасибо!

[temcat.livejournal.com]

induction (weak/strong) = индукция (неполная/полная)
deduction = дедукция
base case = частное утверждение
inductive step = шаг индукции
product = произведение
dot product = скалярное произведение
cross product = векторное произведение
summation (sigma) = суммирование (сумма) (ex.: сумма от n = 1 до бесконечности...)
magnet/magnetic = магнит/магнитный
charge = заряд
superconductor = сверхпроводник
wave = волна (or колебание in some combinations - like f. ex. sine wave = "синусоидальное колебание")
spectrum = спектр
oscilloscope = осциллограф
matter = материя
antimatter = антиматерия
energy = энергия
mass = масса
volume = объем
square = квадрат (noun), квадратный (adjective)
power = мощность
square root = квадратный корень (also корень квадратный)
logarithm = логарифм
matrix = матрица
variable = переменная
reaction = реакция
law = закон
theorem = теорема
postulate = постулат
identity = идентичность
vacuum = вакуум
temperature = температура
pressure = давление
research = исследование (also исследования)
volatile = летучий (chem.)

You're welcome :-)

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

I bet identity is also used for эквиваленция (отношение эквивалентности), but it doesn't have anything to do with radiophysics...

[temcat.livejournal.com]

The physics of electromagnetic spectrum :-)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

>I don't think I've heard many Americans say one hour and a half. When they do, it sounds awkward. At least, it does to me.

Interesting. What part of America are you from? When ob_ivan mentioned "one and a half hours," it sounded weird to me. I usually say "I'll be gone for an hour and a half."

[aciel.livejournal.com]

Oh, okay. I see what you mean, now.

If someone asks me how long, it's "an hour and a half or so." but if they're looking for an exact quantity, it's "one and a half hours." You'd never say an apple and a half, that's one and a half apples, right?

I'm from the DC area.

[oryx_and_crake]

P.S. In case if anyone is interested in the ethymology of полтора, which is not evident even for a native speaker, it is derived from пол-втора, i.e. "(one something and) a half of the second of the same.". Similarly, полтораста is actually "пол-втора-ста", i.e. a half of the second hundred. There was a word for 250, too - "полтретьяста", but it is not used any more.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

Never heard “two and a half thousand”, but I have heard “2.5 thousand”. How do you say that aloud in Russian? In English, it’s “two point five thousand” …

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

decimals are the other topic, but i could describe them too.

First, the decimal dot is written and treated in Russia like comma, that is "десятИчная запятАя".
Next, the usuaul way is to read the fractional part as though it were written like natural fraction. E.g. you read "2.5" as 2 and 5/10, so it is "две целых [и] пять десятых" (literally, "two whole ones and five tenths"). The denominator depends on how many digits are written after the dot. So, "2.51" is "две целых [и] пятьдесят одна сотая" ("two whole pieces and fifty one hundredths").
And the other, more swift and "scientifical" way is similar to yours, English, but the word "dot" is not pronounced. "2.5" is "два и пять" (or "две и пять"). "2.51" is "два [и] пятьдесят один". Note: "две" is the feminine variant of "два", should agree with noun if it follows.

[oryx_and_crake]

две с половиной тысячи

For 2.5 you could say "две целых пять десятых", but I think you cannot say "две целых пять десятых тысячи" - sounds wrong to me.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

You can say "две пятьсот", or, more common, "две тысячи пятьсот", and be completely OK.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

10 hundred and up always confuse me. I say two thousand, five hundred, usually. twenty-five hundred is like saying twenty-five hundred thousand instead of 2.5 billion.

[onodera.livejournal.com]

I say два часа с половиной.
Am I wrong?

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

you are. the correct way is "два с половиной часа"

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

You would be quite right in the ealy 19th century, but not now. Now it's strictly "два с половиной часа".

[ducking.livejournal.com]

And don't forget the truly wonderful word "полтина" (meaning "fifty", as simple as that).

[oryx_and_crake]

I believe полтина (also полтинник) is only used when speaking about money. For all the rest you can use полсотни.

[ducking.livejournal.com]

Well, I'd like to disagree. It may be used in a number of situations, I suppose. Sample: "Полтинник стукнул" ("A person's turned 50").

[oryx_and_crake]

This is a metaphor. You would never say "полтина людей" or "полтинник километров".

[monarchistka.livejournal.com]

"Полтинник стукнул" is also a bit of a joke. They wouldn't say so in an official speach.
Oryx_and_crake is right, "полтинник" is a common word for 50 копеек. May be now it's used according to рубли too.

[temcat.livejournal.com]

Yes, полтинник mostly means 50 roubles now. Inflation, my friend :-)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I wonder, just how often are kopecks used anymore? If $1 = 28p, then 1к = 1/100p = $1/2800. Seems impractical.

[temcat.livejournal.com]

Not that often. In most places, prices are given in whole roubles. Where kopecks are used, the amount is usually rounded to 10 kopecks. It's post offices and banks where you're most likely to deal with 1 or 5 kopeck coins.

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

1к coins are really impractical. I collect them in a special box, because carrying them with me is bothersome.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

***call me strange, BUT***

I cannot say "One hour and a half"... It just sounds so awkward to me... I always say, "One and a half hours" (actually, "won-in-uh half" The "one and a" all becomes the same word... hehehehe). Any time I say whole + half.... I say whole + half + noun. If I hear anyone say, "One loaf and a half of bread" I think it is incorrect rule-wise.

Maybe this is just a regional thing (central Illinois), but even my friends who aren't from here (excluding the ones who *really* aren't from here, as in my friends from abroad)... Don't say whole + noun + half.

Just thought I'd throw that in.

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

This makes me believe that "whole + noun + half" construction I mentioned is some kind of old-fashioned speech style, for I have met it oftenly in literature of middle XX c, and now it's getting pretty rare in use (especially in colloquial speech)...