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Aug. 26th, 2005 04:43 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
happy-accidents.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
learn_russianBy the way, what is жжот? What meaning does it hold, if any?
I realize it's some sort of LJ-thing.
Thanks.
I realize it's some sort of LJ-thing.
Thanks.
happy-accidents.livejournal.com posting in learn_russian
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Date: 2005-08-26 11:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-26 11:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-26 11:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-26 11:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 12:02 am (UTC)Why is it used?
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:32 am (UTC)ты же нормально русский знаешь 8)
глагол "жжот" (обычно "афтар жжот") используется преимущественно так называемыми "падонками" (или сочувствующими им) для восхищения тем или иным произведением (так называемый "креатив" - текст, картинка, etc).
Пользуется популярностью у необразованных и глупых людей, которые не умеют развернуто выражать свои мысли и тупо идут на поводу у толпы.
ссылки по теме:
http://runewsweek.ru/theme/?tid=16&rid=215
http://webplanet.ru/search/?cat=ru&s_string=%E6%E6%EE%F2
(тут очень много)
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 12:52 am (UTC)Well, we have the very same problems in the English. Interesting links, I'll go read them.
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Date: 2005-08-27 01:00 am (UTC)OMG
ASL
hahaha 8)
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Date: 2005-08-27 01:20 am (UTC)I think, it's useful for intellectual development :) But I don't recommend to use it.
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Date: 2005-08-27 02:00 am (UTC)There was a big discussion about what could using of that slang lead to. And as a result there were two opposite action in Russian LJ: "я говорю по-русски" and "я говорю по-албански".
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Date: 2005-08-27 07:57 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 05:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 05:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 05:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-30 05:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 12:43 am (UTC)Это из Пушкина - "глаголом жечь сердца людей".
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:50 am (UTC)I thought that we needed to write in both languages :-/
Интересно, мне кажется все из Пушкина :)
Ну говорят, что он - Шэкспир русского языка, правда?
Interestingly, it seems to me that everything is from Pushkin.
But they say that he's the Shakespeare of the Russian language, right?
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:54 am (UTC)Так и есть. Пушкин - наше все. :)
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:57 am (UTC)No problem. But don't you speak Estonian?
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Date: 2005-08-27 02:53 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 05:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 02:08 am (UTC)Pushkin is really the greatest Russian poet. However he is not as misterious as Shakespeare :)
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Date: 2005-08-27 08:47 am (UTC)and he existed in fact... most probably... Unlike Shakespeare ;-)
btw, Копьетрясов — это круто... Надо запомнить.
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Date: 2005-08-27 05:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-26 11:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 12:06 am (UTC)Синоним: это круто/классно?
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Date: 2005-08-27 12:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 04:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 06:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 06:06 am (UTC)Hint: don't read Russian LJ at all or find some persons which are really worth reading, I can give you some recommendations.
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Date: 2005-08-27 07:06 am (UTC)No offense, but you really sound like a snob saying that.
Though, I agree that slang, and internet slang in particular, must be avoided in speech of course.
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Date: 2005-08-27 08:02 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 04:36 pm (UTC)I disagree that slang must be avoided in speech. That depends entirely on one's purpose.
Subcultures are just as interesting--and if you go the Birmingham School/cultural studies route, much more interesting--than mainstream, normative ones. The language picked up there is a window into that culture, and if one has any intention in not merely communicating reasonably-effectively with Russian people, but also in building some kind of solidarity with them, connecting on a more personal level and learning to self-identify in the same terms(which, some sociolinguists argue, is based entnirely on correctly using their colloquial vocabulary), then LJs and other informal media might be one's best bet.
Really, human beings build relationships primarily on shared vocabularies, and learning the vocabulary of actual people is more than just learning the "civilized speech" they teach you in grammar books that are probably 30 years old and written in an entirely different part of the country, if not an entirely different country altogether. (NOt to mention that most people, when they go home from work, stop using all that "civilized speech" and start talking like a "normal person," whatever that means in that particular class, ethnic group, geographical location, etc.)
Moreover, if someone does not always speak in gramatically perfect Russian--whether this person is a foreign language student, or someone from the provinces, or from the far north, or even a Muscovite for that matter--it simply means that she was socialized to speak in a different speech community than urban, educated Muscovite circles. Or that, even if she does know how to speak this way, she chooses to self-identify with some subculture or non-hegemonic speech community, to use some slang terms, as some act of cultural resistance or self-assertion, or assimilation to a particular group... It doesn't make her any less civilized, nor does it make her a 'pervert.'
Those of us with cultural interests beyond the clique of Moscow's elite might be very well served by developing language skills beyond the high Moscow dialect they tell us is "good, civilized, gramatically correct" Russian. And besides, I might even go so far as to question the thoughtfulness and interestingness of anyone who is too snobby to realize that perfectly interesting and sophisticated thoughts can be expressed in gramatically avant-guard or slangish language... so some of our use for perfectly "civilized" speech may be limited.
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Date: 2005-08-27 05:46 pm (UTC)We didn't start our English studies (if any) with Cockney, Ebonic, Hillbillie etc., did'n we? ;-)
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Date: 2005-08-30 05:06 pm (UTC){{ think that the most of us here (being sane) would never say that slang/lingo thing is not worth studying. It is. It broads one's horizon, enriches one's expressive means, etc. -- all right. But you cannot substitute the knowledge of the language with the knowledge of slang/lingo. One has to master the normative, stylistically neutral language first. }}
I'm not entirely sure I agree that one has to master the normative, official language first--and I definitely don't agree that it is stylistically nuetral. The many people who do not use the official grammar perfectly in their everyday and personal speech will always recognize it as a mark of an outsider. Language is never neutral--if you don't speak like 'us,' you are 'them.'
Example: More often than not, using correct grammar in the United States, even among middle class white folks, causes people to see you as pedantic, nerdy, over-educated, effeminate, awkward. A common and quite relevant joke in America tells us that foreigners usually speak with a better command of English grammar than Americans--which might seem flattering to the foreigner on the outside, but it's also a way of differentiating foriegners from Americans, emphasizing what is different about their speech. (Americans who speak too well are pedantic, snobby, queer; For non-native-speakers, "they just talk like that because they're foreign.") What is most interesting in this case is that it is precisely their command of the normative, official (what you call stylistically neutral)language that suggests foreignness. Isn't that supposed to be the opposite effect of mastering official grammar?
{{We didn't start our English studies (if any) with Cockney, Ebonic, Hillbillie etc., did'n we?}}
A lot of native speakers of English, namely the social groups associated with those dialects, certainly did.
I mean, at the end of the day language is just about effective communication. If your audience understands what you mean by a particular word or construction, even if it isn't grammatically correct in the official, normative sense, then it doesn't really matter. And if the word or construction in question is closely associated with that audience, if it is a speech pattern they use themselves, then it will be more effective than any official usages. Why, then, do I have to learn the official grammar first, before delving into this more useful language? If my purpose in learning Russian were not to read Dostoevsky and write papers at university, but to communicate effectively with ordinary people, than what would it matter?
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Date: 2005-08-31 08:06 am (UTC)>A lot of native speakers of English, namely the social groups associated with those dialects, certainly did.
Good for them. But I am not a native speaker, as you can see, and by saying "we" I mean "us non-native speakers," of course. Don't you feel that even if it's a bit queer for - let's use me as an example - adult male Russian to speak some grammatically perfect English (of course I know that, in fact, my English is quite too far from any sort of "perfect,") it's even more queer for an adult male Russian to sport Ebonic or Cockney?
>If my purpose in learning Russian were not to read Dostoevsky and write papers at university, but to communicate effectively with ordinary people, than what would it matter
Then you have to speak only for yourself, because for many people here it is directy opposite, don't you think so?
Let me assure you that an adult or teenage, male or female American who sports any sort of non-normative, rustic, dialectal Russian, looks at least equally pitiful and pathetic.
>
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Date: 2005-08-28 06:08 am (UTC)Believe me, it wasn't my point! I was talking about this particular type of slang.
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Date: 2005-08-30 05:23 pm (UTC)Although, even that, I must say may not always be true. A friend of mine verbalizes common American-English internet phrases and abbreviations (like "LOL" and "J/K"), and people tend to find it very amusing. As long as the listener/audience is someone familiar enough with net slang to catch the reference, it could be ok, couldn't it? I believe someone here already mentioned that educated use this slang in some sense, even if mostly ironically/jokingly.
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Date: 2005-08-27 09:07 am (UTC)Скорее всего, пошлО от "зажигать", которое стало употребляться молодежью в значении "хорошо провести время", "отдохнуть", "побыть на вечеринке" и т.п.
(Most possibly the word came from "зажигать", which used by teenagers meaning "have a good time" ("have fun"), "to relax", "to party" (well, "to rock" ;-)) etc.
таким образом, "жечь" можно "перевести" как "хорошо провести время, причем делать это хорошо"
thus, "жечь" could be "translated" like "have fun very good".
"Аффтар жжот" означает одновременно "автор крут" ("автор хорош") и "автор развлекается".
"Аффтар жжот" means simultaneously "author rocks" and "author's having fun".
мне показалось что эти аспекты тоже имеют значение.
I just thought those aspects are meaningful too.
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Date: 2005-08-27 10:04 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-27 10:05 am (UTC)no subject
А вот Вам еще пища для размышлений:
http://rulezman.multik.org/
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Date: 2005-08-27 05:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2005-08-28 09:06 am (UTC)It is my duty as one of community maintainers' to remind people to follow the rules, and so I do. If you cannot agree with the rules, or do not want to agree with them (which is the same,) you have a free choice of not to participate.
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Date: 2005-08-28 03:08 pm (UTC)happy_accidents speaks Russian really well, but not all learn_russian users do...be fair to the newbies. Reply in English.