(no subject)

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

In Russian class, we talked very thoroughly about the use of ты and вы. Yes, we even went so far as to read Pushkin's poem about that. Joy.

But there's one really important group of people which was left out. Family! In America, and other countries, children have started calling their parents by their first names, which I find very disrespectful. How is this handled in Russia? And how do people address older siblings, cousins, grandparents, etc. If I remember correctly, it is possible to use just a first name and still use вы.

Thanks.

Update: Thanks everyone. My poor parents are in for it now:-D

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

You normally say "ты" to parents but you don't address them by first names, you call them мама and папа (мамка, батя is colloquial).
You normally say "ты" to your children, brothers, sisters and younger relatives and you address them by first names.
As to the older relatives and parents-in-law, it depends. Different families have different traditions here. I am on "name-and-patronymic and вы" terms with my in-laws, likе "Здравствуйте, Иван Николаевич". My aunts and uncles I address as "дядя Саша, тетя Лена" and "вы" (not just Саша, Лена). I used to address my grandparents as "бабушка/дедушка" and "ты" (no first names here either).

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Wow, that's funny. Ты with your grandparents, and вы with Aunts and Uncles.

Мамка and папка are adorable. I'll have to start torturing my parents with them. I'd only heard тятя and маметчка (spelling?). Are those terms less popular/common, or are they incorrect?

[oryx_and_crake]

It's мамочка - this is a more tender version of мама, as in "мамочка, ты такая хорошая!" - Mommy dearest, you are so nice!

"Тятя" is practically never used, at least I only came across it in Pushkin's poems and old classical novels.

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

The two words I absolutely adore that depicts the utmost respect for parents (because Colombians always use Usted), is батюшка and матушка.

[oryx_and_crake]

They are lovely but not used for addressing parents any more, I am afraid.
Some of my friends refer to their mothers as моя матушка but it is always in the third person.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Actually, they are used, but, alas, only in small, remote religious communities, like Siberian Old-Believers. I've seen a great documentary on a Russian Old-Believers' community in Argentina (!) -- they've used батюшка and матушка a lot, and even a local Native Argentinian (dunno how to explain this politically correct -- the guy was the Sount-American Indian) who wanted to marry a Russian girl, had to convert to Ancient Orthodoxy, and learn Russian, which he did; he was also addressing his bride's father as батюшка.
And, of course, you still call the Orthodox priest батюшка is you speak to him in an informal way.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

Ты with your grandparents, and вы with Aunts and Uncles.

That, I think, depends on the family. In mine, my uncle has always been "ты", but his wife was a "вы" because we didn't really know or like her all that well. =)

[constpd.livejournal.com]

Мамочка is actually much more common that мамка. Тятя is extremely old-fashioned, to my mind.
By the way, “мамка” is a rather common colloquial for computer motherboard.

[ashalynd.livejournal.com]

There are as well: мамуля/папуля (tender/sometimes ironic), маманя/папаня (outdated/redneck style), мамаша/папаша (almost rude; can be used in many situations by those poorly educated to address almost anybody), маменька/папенька (aristocratic kids adressed their parents in this fashion, at least according to classic literature; I've never heard this pair used in the real life).

For kids most often used words are дочка/сынок; there are also many variations, but most of those are used when you mention your kids to somebody else; the kids themselves are usually just called by their first names or pet names. Same about siblings and nieces/nephews/grandchildren.

Again, according to classic literature, in aristocratic families everybody spoke Вы to each other; in merchant families kids were addressed using ты but they said Вы to their parents, and noble folk said ты to all commoners.

When the czar was just czar he also appeared to be addressed by ты, probably because czar was also named everybody's father (царь-батюшка, государь ты наш). When he become the emperor, Вы became the norm (Ваше императорское величество).

Батюшка could be also used to address a priest, and матушка - for an abbess or for the priest's wife.

[juniper949.livejournal.com]

Also in Old Russian and Old Church slavonic God is addressed as "ty".

[mixalbi4.livejournal.com]

You've forgotten such names as "Батя" (more often to the third person) or "Отец" (with a respect) for father. And also "Мамка/Папка"( the meaning is often used by kids )

[wire-shock.livejournal.com]

Ow, мамка & папка are AWFUL! :-)
Besides, папка means a file.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yup, I always shrug when I hear it, but many people use it. To my great surprise, their parents don't mind.

[insaint.livejournal.com]

The usage of "ты" and "вы" depends on a few things. One is how well you know the person. The other is what your actual relationship with them is. Sometimes the person's preferences will factor in as well. Some hate being addressed formally.

Outside of family, you can call someone by their first name only (indicating that you know the person fairly well), but if your relationship with them is professional or you aren't close buddies and you want to underline your respect for them, you use "вы".

When talking to the elderly, "вы" is almost a requirement (unless you're talking to family you know well).

With personal friends and family, "ты" is the way to go.

When in doubt, start with "вы" and see what happens. :)

[welgar.livejournal.com]

In modern Russian, you'd say "ты" to your parents, brothers, sisters, cousins, grandparents.
Using "ты" or "Вы" with your aunts and uncles depends on traditions in your family and your actual relations.

You call your father and mother "папа" and "мама" accordingly, your grandfather and grandmother "дедушка" ("дед", "деда" etc.) and "бабушка" and you may add their first name if you need to specify which grandparent you mean (like "дедушка Володя"). You call your brothers, sisters and cousins by their first names. When calling your uncles and aunts some people say "дядя" and "тетя" before the first names (like "дядя Сергей" or "тетя Ася").

[danvolodar.livejournal.com]

Heh, "тетя Ася" is something from the depth of the subconsciousness ;)

[youmka.livejournal.com]

We use first names + Вы not when we refer to relatives, but when the "distance" (may be age) between people is rather short, but not that short to say ты. To a collegue, for example, who is a bit older than me, I would say "Маша, Вы".

And where do you study Russian? just curious

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Haha. That's a very long story. 3 years, three schools! It's hard to find good Russian programs that actually support their students.
Right now I'm at the University of Washington in Seattle. Haven't taken classes there yet though. Last place I studied was Hofstra University in New York. Are you looking for a college? :-)))

[youmka.livejournal.com]

No, I'm not :))) I'm TEACHING Russian as a foreign language.

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

This may sound corny... but thank you!

[hopeinagpa.livejournal.com]

You're at UW?! cool! except, my Russian teacher would probably tell you to get away, quick. heh. According to him, the profs there can't talk their way out of a paper bag (though they can do grammar drills and such). Maybe things have changed since then. I'll be doing a summer intensive at UW next year. :D Good luck with your studies! If you have MSN messenger, maybe we can practice Russian sometime!

[virtualsushi.livejournal.com]

Please note that Tы (=Thou) is common when talking to God.
That also shows the tendency to use it the more often, the closer (more sacred) you consider a person to your own self.

[solito.livejournal.com]

Note that official names for grandparents in Russian are "дед" and "бабка" respectively. The latter (when used in the meaning "grandmother") is rarely used anywhere except in the official language (say, a police report or a will) though "дед" is quite normal even for addressing the grandpa in some situations. More usual are "дедушка" and "бабушка".

Бабка is also used in the meaning "old lady", it sounds a bit disdainful and rude. There is a number of other meanings in anatomy and engineering.

In my family I addressed my grandparents as дедушка, бабушка, and I used ты. My aunt and uncle by name and using ты as well, though I felt a bit confused when addressing my uncle this way - he in fact was just a husband of my aunt, and for me he was "not from our family" :))) Later this feeling disappeared.

However, even now there are families where the children are taught to use Вы when speaking to their Mom and Dad. It's unusual nowadays, but still exists in some families...

[danvolodar.livejournal.com]

It seems noone has mentioned that parents can be addressed as just "ма" and "па". Everyone I know say so.

[oryx_and_crake]

This must be Americanized style - very unusual, to my mind.

[danvolodar.livejournal.com]

Well, must be, but it's not an "Americanized style" - just because most of my friends learn German. But I think it's not German style either.

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Maybe Ma and Pa are American, but very few people use them here. Mostly people who live in the country. The only other instance I can think of is in historical novels about the pioneer days. lol.

[temcat.livejournal.com]

In my family, мамАн is sometimes used (jokingly).

[x-katya.livejournal.com]

It was not the point of your question, but may be of interest for you:
older people (mostly women) may address younger people "дочка", "сынок" and "ты" even if they do not know them (for example in the street) - "Сынок, помоги сумку донести" - "Son, help me a bit to carry my bag". Sometimes as reply to it they are also addressed "mother" - (whan he had carried her bag) "Спасибо, сынок!" - "Да ладно тебе, мать!" (Thank you, son! - Don't worry, mother!). It is user among not very educated people. And I am not sure that it will be used in the future.