playing with words

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Not that I'm very interested in sports and the like, but my textbook is really confusing me on this.

My book seems to be making a very clear list of sports/games which can be used with играть (plus accusative) and another list for заниматься (plus insturmental). For example: would it be incorrect to say "Моя сестра занимается волейболом" or "Мы играем в гимнастику." If so, please explain why the meaning would be wrong.

Thanks for your help.

Comments

[gera.livejournal.com]

both - заниматься.
It's pretty straightforward - гимнастика (workout) is not a game.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Oh, I see why you are confused.
Играть в волейбол - to play volleyball
Заниматься волейболом - to attend the training

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Oh, so заниматься can mean more "to study" the sport? If that's the case, I'll be able to remember.

Can гимнастика also mean "gymnastics"?

[gera.livejournal.com]

Oh, so заниматься can mean more "to study" the sport?

No, it's a different meaning, it's like to engage (or to be engaged) in the sport.

Can гимнастика also mean "gymnastics"?

Yes. But if it is утренняя гимнастика - that's always a workout (a light one, usually).

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

it's like to engage (or to be engaged) in the sport.

I wonder where the line is drawn. How serious would someone have to be about volleyball for "Заниматься волейболом" to be the correct option?

[gera.livejournal.com]

It's a matter of a formal training (usually with a coach) vs people just having fun.

Of course in the former case people are still playing, so you would use играть speaking in the present continuos context - he is playing.
Занимается would describe a more general concept - he is doing formal training.

[tamara-k.livejournal.com]

actually, it's perfectly fine to say "Моя сестра занимается волейболом", here your textbook is not just confusing, but incorrect.
the second phrase is indeed not acceptable.

the rule is, more or less: играть (to play) is for sportes where playing is involved - like basketball, volley, tennis etc; there is a "vs" element to it - an opponent or opposing team.

"заниматься" is for games like running, swimmimg, jumping, etc - there is an element of competition there, of course, but no "play" is involved.

however, it's ok to use "заниматься" with the first type of sports. no logic, just something to remember.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I hate to say it... But it's "just like English".

Играть is "to play".
Заниматься is "to busy oneself (with), to engage in" (it does NOT mean "to study")

You would never say "I play swimming" because swimming is not a game (yes, it is a sport, can be competitive, has rules... but it's not considered a game). You could say, though, "I participate in swimming." It's rather wordy, not commonly said (but it is said sometimes), but it makes perfect sense.

I learned the phrase, "Я занята" (i'm busy) before I learned заниматься... And that is how I say it in my head (thought not FULLY correct), "I busy myself with swimming/running/etc." If you already know this phrase, try to remember it like that. If you don't already know this phrase, then learn it, because it's important and it could potentially help you here. :))

[oryx_and_crake]

Заниматься does mean "to study".
Она занимается математикой. She studies mathematics.
Он занимается плаванием. He is seriously into swimming. He is training as a swimmer. (At school they taught us to say "She goes in for swimming" but I am not sure whether it is good English.)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I don't know which is your first language, but...

In English, we don't say "We study basketball/football/gymnastics/etc." unless you are literally studying it, i.e. you're reading the history of basketball, etc. If you are playing basketball, ENGAGING in basketball, trying to become better, etc... We say, "He is training for basketball."

Занимается математикой... I think this means, "She studies mathematics" in the sense that she is studying that in college, and you wouldn't typically say this if she is studying for a math test right now.

Russian is a richer language in the sense that there are more words to describe specific things. English doesn't have that - speakers must imply many ideas behind a single sentence, and listeners must infer. One of the things that makes English SO hard to learn for non-native speakers is that, "She is studying math" can mean a multitude of things. So when you say to an American (maybe someone else who speaks English who isn't from America may understand it in a different way), "He's studying basketball," that American will probably think you mean he is reading books, looking on the Internet for information, etc etc etc... And not, "He's training/practicing basketball."

Complicated.

[oryx_and_crake]

I know that you don't say "he studies basketball" and I was not suggesting anything like that. But you can perfectly well say in Russian "он занимается плаванием, баскетболом, шахматами". If you read my previous comment carefully, you will see that I proposed translating "он занимается плаванием" not as "he studies swimming" but as "he is training as a swimmer".

My first language is Russian, and we DO say "он занимается математикой" which is equivalent to "he studies mathematics". This means that заниматься means "to study" in some contexts. Not in all of them.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I object to your description Russian as a "richer" language. I could find dozens of examples to "prove" English is a richer language, but the truth is simply that each language describes reality in a different way. And to say "speakers must imply many ideas behind a single sentence, and listeners must infer" is to equate English with some kind of monkey language. English is a perfectly adequate communication system, and is quite capable of handling very complex and very nuanced ideas. Perhaps the average speaker is sometimes sloppy and does not communicate well, but that is true everywhere, and is not due to defects in the language.

[tikvi.livejournal.com]

Okay. Thanks everyone for your insights. This makes a lot more sense to me now.