(no subject)

[wolfie-18.livejournal.com]

I again need to ask about some differences...

between штука and вещь

And between the usage of бы and должен in the context of..., well, something like "You should read this book"

Ты бы прочитал эту книгу.
Ты должен прочитать эту книгу.

Comments

[storm-jack.livejournal.com]

by usually denotes something you ought to do, but isn't mandatory while dolzhen is something that you should do, and while it may not be mandatory, it's close to it.

please forgive the transliteration and not using Cyrillic - I'm at work and the computer are locked down beyond belief.

[zloizloi.livejournal.com]

The difference between штука and вещь is about the same as the difference between 'piece' and 'thing'. штука is used mostly when you count or order some things, like bottles of beer, plates, eggs, etc...

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Let me try...

вещь "thing" ("эта вещь не продаётся"), "possession" (in plural only, "собирай свои вещи и уходи")

штука "piece" ("сколько тебе нужно апельсинов? -- три штуки"), "thing" ("эта игрушка -- отличная штука", synonymous to вещь), "thingy-whatsitsname" ("дай мне эту штуку"), "one thousand" ("штука баксов", on amount of money, slangy)

It's not easy to explain бы. "I suggest you read this book" is in my opinion close, but not entirely adequate equivalent.

[ex-ex-zhuzh.livejournal.com]

Or maybe it's not really adequate. Maybe something like "I wish you read this book" or "It would be nice if you read this book" is closer.

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

Ты бы прочитал эту книгу. = "Would be nice if you read this book"
Ты должен прочитать эту книгу. = "You should (have to, must) read this book"
The more strong variant of the latter is "Ты обязан прочитать эту книгу".

About штука and вещь: usually штука is only a counter (Сколько у тебя книг? - Пять штук.), but could be used instead of вещь in sense of "thing" (colloquial speech only!). And don't ever use штука for uncountable things, they don't suit.

[phubs.livejournal.com]

wouldn't

тебе надо читать эту книгу (you have to read this book) work for a strong variant?

[ob-ivan.livejournal.com]

"обязан" seems to me to be stronger than "надо". but i don't think there's a strict order between those modal words

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

Ты бы прочитал эту книгу. - You should read this book.
Ты должен прочитать эту книгу. - You have to read this book.

штука and вещь have very little in common.
To show your low competence in the subject you may say "Эта штука нужна для ...", instead of "Эта вешь нужна для ...". That's probably it.

штука - abstract object (for counting, like: one object, two objects, etc.), slang: object of unknown purpose

вещь - material object (usually owned by somebody, like "это мои вещи" - this is my staff), slang: something really good (example: Книга - вешь! This book is really good!)

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

One more example:
Это вешь! - This is really something!

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

Sorry for typo
вешь = вещь

[oryx_and_crake]

"To show your low competence in the subject you may say "Эта штука нужна для ...", instead of "Эта вешь нужна для ..."."

I myust say that this phrase does not make sense for me.

[russian-bob.livejournal.com]

I mean when you are talking about something, lets say, technical, and you do not know how different parts are called, you may say:

Эта штука нужна для того чтобы в двигатель подавался бензин.
This thing conducts gas to the engine.

Instead of:
Эта трубка служит для подачи бензина в двигатель.
This hose supplies gas to the engime.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Ты бы прочитал эту книгу. - Well, it would be really good if you could read this book;
Ты должен прочитать эту книгу. - YOU MUST READ THIS BOOK, GO ON AND DO IT!

The difference is pretty much like that :))

>between штука and вещь

штука is stylistically neutral only if it's a "counting word": Сколько у тебя книг? - Сто сорок девять штук (How many books do you have? -- One hundred and forty-nine [pieces.])

In the pair штука <--> вещь the latter is stylistivcally neutral, while the first is colloquial. There is a bunch of variations on this word that make it even more colloquial - штуковина, even штукенция sometimes (у солдата Ивана не было оружия - ну, разве что одна небольшая штуковина... -- the soldier Ivan got no weapon, well, just one little thang...) :)

[oryx_and_crake]

вещь sometimes is used in the meaning of "a piece of art" or "work", e.g. a book, a picture or a symphony.

E.g. "Эта вещь Толстого/Чайковского/Репина была написана в 1900 году/получила благоприятные отзывы критиков." (This novel by Tolstoy/symphony by Chaikovsky/painting by Repin was created in 1990/ was praised by critics.)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

(thoughtful) funny how calendar differs from country to country. I knew that it was still 14th century in Muslim countries, but I've never heard that 1900 in Russia was equal to 1990 in Canada ;-)))

[oryx_and_crake]

Oh dear...
:-)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

To make things worse, in Polish the word wit exactly this meaning is "sztuka" :))