(no subject)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

I'm a little confused about something...

How do you say "ever" in Russian? I cannot find anything in my dictionaries or textbooks (strange?) about this.

"Do you ever go to the movies?"
"Have you ever seen Fantastic 4?"
"Would you ever see it again?"
etc etc.

My Ukrainian friend said "вообще" is always used, but my boyfriend said something different (if you haven't read some of my other posts, he's from Yekaterinburg... and I generally go to him with my Russian questions, but this time I'm not entirely sure)...

Also, when do you know to put the и after the word? The only example I can think of is, "Даже и если"... If you know what I'm talking about, could you kindly explain?

Comments

[shellesie.livejournal.com]

You can use "вообще" or "когда-нибудь", "когда либо". Когда-либо is more literary, вообще is for a free style.

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

"Когда-либо" always has a hyphen!

[shellesie.livejournal.com]

oops, lost :)

[ex-ov4arka394.livejournal.com]

"Do you ever go to the movies?" = "Вы КОГДА-НИБУДЬ ходите в кино?" or "Вы ХОТЬ РАЗ ходили в кино?"

"Have you ever seen Fantastic 4?" = "Вы КОГДА-НИБУДЬ видели Fantastic 4?" or "Вы ХОТЬ РАЗ видели Fantastic 4?"

"Would you ever see it again?" - "Вы КОГДА-НИБУДЬ увидете это снова?".

[solito.livejournal.com]

...увидите...

[ex-ov4arka394.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, I'm sorry. Russian is my native language... It is shameful! :)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

Are you sure there is no бы in the last sentence? It's not indicative -

"WILL you ever see it again?" but "WOULD you ever see it again?"... I know they are used as though they mean the same thing, but they don't. I don't know exactly how to explain the difference, but "WOULD you ever see it again?" is more conditional... If ___, then ___ -> If it's not too expensive to buy or rent, then I would see it again. (Of course, most people just say "yes", "no", or "maybe")

[ex-ov4arka394.livejournal.com]

"If it's not too expensive to buy or rent, ____then I would see it again____". I think, this sentence means "___Я БЫ посмотрел на это ещё раз____". You are right, I didn't know that Would and Will don`t mean the same thing here.

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

"Вы хоть раз ходили в кино?" would have been "Have you ever been to the movies?", NOT "do you ever go...".

[http://users.livejournal.com/_virusman_/]

ever = когда-нибудь
Have you ever been to Moscow? = Ты когда-нибудь был в Москве?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>The only example I can think of is, "Даже и если"...
But it's wrong: correct version is "Даже если [...] и" - "даже если ты и прав, я все равно буду делать по-своему" (and if you even are right, I will do it my own way, anyway). In this case, "и" serves as an amplifying mean, one can easily drop it. Maybe some other example would serve better, but right now I couldn't think of a better one (or a different one,) sorry :)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

It's WRONG?! When our exchange student from Ukraine was with us, she said that is how you would say, "Even if _______." and she went to a great extent of saying how и must come in between them.

But, alright, when do you know if you can use it to amplify something?

[oryx_and_crake]

I second wolk_off. "Даже и если" sounds wrong to me.

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

It sounds wrong to me, too, but... then again... many things I say in Russian sound wrong. :-P

[spiderhood.livejournal.com]

Ok, not "wrong". Let it be "incorrect" then ;) "Even if ..." is "даже если ...", all right?

[oryx_and_crake]

Ukrainian version of Russian has some, should I say, peculiarities or dialectisms. The problem is that the two languages are too close, this kind of puts you off guard. A Ukrainian girl I work with said the other day, "Когда я училась в университете, у нас в группе было двадцать человек и три девушки" (literally, "There were twenty persons (or humans) and three girls in our group at the university"). It's very easy to understand why she said so if you know that "чоловик" is Ukrainian for male or husband. Unlike Russian человек which is a human or person in general, and if you want to say "man" meaning male, you should say мужчина (or парень, юноша, молодой человек, the latter paradoxically meaning not "a young person" but specifically "a young man" - yes, I know it is confusing :-) ).

Now answering your question - I really cannot think of any use of "и" for enhancement or amplification, except maybe for the case when it means "too" or "one more", e.g.
Если и это не поможет, тогда я не знаю, что делать - If this does not help either, then I really don't know what to do.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

It is wrong. BTW IMHO an exchange student from Ukraine is not ecaxtly The Expert in complicated word usage of Russian language (not each of them, at least :))

Well, basically in EACH construction involving "даже если", an "и" can be added for amplification (and for making the phrase to sound more, er, literate):
Даже если это так - даже если это и так (even if it's so)
Даже если ты не станешь писать ему, ему напишу я - даже если ты и не станешь писать ему, ему напишу я (even if you will not write to him, I'll do)

etc.
Dropping И or leaving it does not change the meaning too much (if ever,) that И only makes the phrase "look better" ;-)

[padruka1988.livejournal.com]

So what you're trying to say is that Ukrainian people often throw in Ukrainian words/phrases when speaking Russian? Well, that makes sense... I throw in English phrases when speaking Russian, too (of course, that's usually because I don't know the word in Russian).

Yeah, I still don't understand what you mean by using и... I guess it's one of those things that is quite difficult to explain if you don't speak Russian fluently... One of those things that you just have to feel... And if I can be understood clearly without using и other than for joining two parts of a sentence, then I guess I'm fine.

[noser.livejournal.com]

Yeah, don't hurry. It'll come to you naturally :)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Russian language has a lot of tiny nuances that mostly only native speakers can feel, or somebody who speak Russian exclusively for many years and live in native Russian environment. Being good means for making the language richer, those nuances (usage of даже если/даже если и included) can easily be omitted by those who don't exactly feel them [still]: this does not add or steal almost anything to/from what you want to say.