MAT

[taosu.livejournal.com]

I wonder if the issue of мат had been viewed here before. I don't think there aren't any learners of Russian who are interested in this... or maybe it would be against the rules of this community? Oh, I don't know.

Comments

[shalapanova.livejournal.com]

There in nothing about "MAT" in the rules of this community, but let's wait for the moderator. ;-)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

The only problem is that some of my fellow Russians cannot behave themselves when it comes to that stuff. They start giggling, as if they were 3rdgraders who still have fun of calling parts of their bodies not the way their grannies have taught them to, and willingly demonstrate much more knowledge than they wer asked about. This is the only thing I'm afraid of, as one of this community's maintainers. If one can discuss this issue as STRICTLY LINGUISTIC, then go ahead. If one cannot behave him/herself - well, you are warned.

[shalapanova.livejournal.com]

I guess you are to add this issue to the community rules in order to avoid useless discussions.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

There's this paragraph:
Please note that any abusive posts or comments will be deleted, and their authors banned from the community without a warning.
I think this is enough. The public tolerance towards obscenities in Russian society differs from that in English-speaking societes, so the idea of abuse is quite wide here. However, I don't really think that this can be a real problem. See, even is this case it is a Russian who provokes the community to discuss this topic, not a real Russian learner :))

[shalapanova.livejournal.com]

You are the moderator ;-)

[gera.livejournal.com]

The public tolerance towards obscenities in Russian society differs from that in English-speaking societes

As I told you before, I think this is a wrong perception.
I just wrote in a little more detail about this. (http://www.livejournal.com/users/gera/432009.html)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I was speaking not about the government's attitudes, but about the public tolerance. Those two things aren't equal; surprisingly - especially in today's Russia.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Are you implying that today's Russian society is less tolerant to obscenities than it was 15 years ago?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

One thing I really cannot be tolerant to is when somebody try to generalize something that just can't be generalized. :)
Some parts of Russian society today are definitely less tolerant to obscenities than it was 15 years ago. I belong to one of those parts of the society.
Some are the same as they were.
Some are definitely much more tolerate (if not directly welcome.)
Some just don't give a s***.
People are different. Much more different than they were even some mere 15 years ago.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Don't you think that for you personally it may have to do with getting that much older? :) Same would be true about any specific person you know.
The society as whole, however, didn't get 15 years older :)
My own impression (which is of dubious reliability, considering where I live) is that the society as a whole is a little bit more tolerant to obscenities than it used to be, in part because all old limitation are now being questioned...

In short, I can't really think of a situation in which obscene words in US would be acceptable where in a similar situation in Russia they wouldn't be.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Did you see the discussion between the journalist/writer/poet Dmitry Bykov and some old witch Duma she-member on NTV channel? It was entirely dedicated to the usage of obscenities and some mysterious substance that the old witch called "negative information in the media". She was insisting that both obscenities and "negative information" must be banned from any use legally, by a Federal law (and she had prepared a project of that law for the Duma.) Dima's point (I call him Dima because we were classmates some 20 years ago) was that you cannot ban the obscenities in the media since it's been years and years since any media used it (except in some - very rare! - movies,) so how could you ban something that didn't exist? And the old witch could not object, because this was true.
As for the ban the mysterious "negative information" from the media, Bykov's point was that you have to ban the whole real life then (which was, in fact, made once: on the Soviet Central TV in the 1970s.) Should I add that when it came to the people's live-on-the-air-vote, Bykov got some 58 thousand "pro" calls, and the witch only ten thousand less?

[gera.livejournal.com]

I didn't see it (don't have Russian TV), but I read about it in LJ.

mysterious "negative information" from the media

What kind of information was she talking about? Things like movies about hookers, criminals and drugs? Talking about such things in general?
Reporting about disasters? Criticizing officials?

Bykov got some 58 thousand "pro" calls, and the witch only ten thousand less

Check this out (http://www.livejournal.com/users/gera/405624.html), especially the picture with the statistics.
This is not exactly about the vocabulary but it is in the same ballpark. Note the "Never suitable category".
There's no doubt the attitude to the words is similar.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yeah, this must be pretty close to what we have now in Russia. The percentage of the people who feel absolutely restrictive to the stuff like that grows from year to year, and not without a reason. Though some of the TV channels that poisoned their lives before have already changed their policy. It is almost impossible to see some sexual scenes on Russian TV before midnight (and, probably, only on some obslure minor channels) now, though it was widely spread only 10 years ago.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>>>What kind of information was she talking about? Things like movies about hookers, criminals and drugs? Talking about such things in general? Reporting about disasters? Criticizing officials?

All of that, plus the Bad News in general.

[gera.livejournal.com]

Wow. These people are still out there. :)

[-fallingfree-.livejournal.com]

Why not?
There is much to learn, much to discuss. It's very, very interesting and useful.

[idealforcolors.livejournal.com]

ok, now you've got me curious, tell. i have no idea what this refers to.

[friendlic.livejournal.com]

Мат - foul/obscene language, abuse
Материться - to use foul language

This is what my dictionary says. Is it the right translation to English?

[idealforcolors.livejournal.com]

Ah. Well let's hear it then! I only know one indecent word, and that from being warned that we were accidentally mispronouncing a word and saying something awful instead. I promise I'll be good.

[xnrrn.livejournal.com]

As they wrote on the Irish (and not only) pubs at the entrance: "No bloody swearing", and various nice plaques like that. Russian equivalent would be: "Не материться".

[liritar.livejournal.com]

i have a small russian obscenity dictionary, but havent really looked at it. i am curious to know some common "curse words", or if Russians do not swear as much as English speakers? (or another culture for that matter).

[gjertsen.livejournal.com]

I'm pretty sure russians don't swear as much as english speakers. I swear quite a bit in english, and when I've been working in russia, and swearing in english, the guys who were working for me (even the one's who didn't speak any english at all) recognized the english swear words and were quite shocked. They also thought it was funny and would point and laugh at me whenever I said "sh*t". I learned to avoid doing it, because I started to get the impression they thought I was quite a coarse woman...I mean, being a foreigner, people will obviously cut you some slack about some social niceties, but that seemed like I was going a bit too far.
I wouldn't mind learning some swear words in russian, but I'm pretty sure I'd never use them ;) (at least out loud.)

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

Russians, in my experience, use more profanity than Americans. The polite ones restrict their use of "mat" to when they're hangin' out with the boys.

Russian men are simply extremely shocked to hear words like that coming out of women's mouths, even the men who use words like that in the presence of ladies. It doesn't really make sense, but there it is.

[beltspinner.livejournal.com]

Notice how all the English speakers are like "Oooooh, I wanna learn it!"

I know a few words, but I'd rather learn cool insulting phrases rather than just literal translations from English.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

Knowledge isn't a bad thing. I agree with wolk_off; if it's put in a professional manner, it would make sense to have it on here. From what I've seen, a lot of the people learning Russian on the community would like to learn it.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

As one really old and boring fart, I cannot subscribe to the poster's point of view, but since we decide to do this in a strictly linguistic manner, and to discuss the issue as a strictly liguistic issue, whitout unncecessary demonstration of too much dirt, I thereby agree to be patient for a while. I just warn those who cannot wait to open their Russian Obscene Wisdom Storage Facilities too wide, that it is I who is going to decide if the Storage Facilities are opened too wide, and it is a fast ban (effective forever) that follows the boundary break, so be careful.
I also ask the poster to kindly use lj-cut in his following posts extensively, since there is a lot of people here who are not going to be too happy to see curse words on their friend mode pages, this maintainer included.

[adward.livejournal.com]

а вы о чём тут?