Big Bad ы

[oikade.livejournal.com]

Has anyone got any tips for helping a native English speaker pronounce "ы"?

I'm nearly ready to give up, but the Love says no, it cannot 'just be your accent' - you must pronounce it properly.

I'm finding it to be a very difficult sound. :( In fact, since I can't pronounce the letter - I've taken to refering to it as "the fucker" - just so Dima knows which one I'm talking about. :)

Edit: Thank-you for all the tips and suggestions!

Comments

[sventhelost.livejournal.com]

That's about how I do it. It feels kind of like I'm swallowing my tongue.

[oikade.livejournal.com]

Hay! Very helpful. :) Well, I think...

To me it sounds more like it's sopposed to - but I'll have to wait until my Russian gets back home to see if he approves. ;)

[holyschist.livejournal.com]

I find that kind of stretching my mouth out to the sides and making the sound in the back of my throat helps (I'm exaggerating, and it's hard to explain verbally).

It is a tricky sound.

[crculver.livejournal.com]

One strategy is pronouncing the i of General American English ‘bit’ as if you are holding a pencil between your teeth.

[temcat.livejournal.com]

Seems very similar to ы, indeed.

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

The way I ended up figuring out how to pronounce it was as a sort of guttural "oy" noise ... it's similar to уй, but a lot more ... grunt-like, I suppose.

[kasak.livejournal.com]

In some dialects of English, the "e" in "roses" is actually pronounced like the Slavic /ы/ [ɨ] (In case you can't see the IPA symbol, it's a barred i, meaning it's an unrounded close front vowel). I don't know if this will apply to you, but if you don't pronounce the "e" like [ɪ] (Non-regional pronunciation "pig") or [ə] (NRP "about"), you might actually be using a short /ы/ [ɨ] sound already. If so, just repeat it!

If not, see what crculver said; very apt way to explain how to pronounce
/ы/ [ɨ].

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

What dialects of English? I've never heard that before. (But then, I live in middle America and am not exposed to many interesting dialects.)

[kutsuwamushi.livejournal.com]

ы is halfway between "ee" and "oo"; try pronouncing "ee", but farther back in your mouth.

That might not work, though. I was completely unable to pronounce ы at first, despite the varied and excellent advice of my professors. But eventually, I had been exposed to it so much that it started to come naturally.

If you're relatively new to studying Russian (in other words, you don't have some sort of unusual problem with the sound), exposure might do the trick for you. Listening to Russian and then trying to imitate, and so on.

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

My Russian book describes it as the "i" in "ill". Sounds close, though I don't think its quite the same sound.

[cema.livejournal.com]

More like "i" in "sit", but it depends on the dialect. (Your dialect, not Russian.)

[jennerosityls05.livejournal.com]

i was showed the pencil trick...english bit as someone previously referred to it...it helped a ton

[battersby.livejournal.com]

I feel like a dork. I just tried that. BUT IT WORKS! I'm going to remember that one for others who have problems with it. Thanks!

[madrumos.livejournal.com]

I'd be very, very wary about thinking about ы as a sound similar to уй. There is some similarity, but more often this just results in a horrible American accent. The main thing to remember is that your mouth should be relaxed, especially your lips, and the sound should be pronounced quite far back in the mouth. Your tongue shouldn't really be elevated or doing much of anything, just moving back some, perhaps.
Think about it this way: when someone asks you a tough question and you do a long 'uhhhh...' deep back in your throat. Now close your mouth just slightly when doing that to bring it up from a low vowel. And move the sound as far back in your mouth as you can.
That's my attempt.

[noser.livejournal.com]

As a Russian, I just fail to see how ы can sound ANY close to уй.

Are you guys (up in the discussion) serious???? Stop misleading people.

[noser.livejournal.com]

Err, how did I manage to insult everyone? That was not my intent.

Good tips are already in abundance here. I think pronouncing "ee" while moving the tongue back and down is a very good one.

[noser.livejournal.com]

Correction: "while" -> "after"

[battersby.livejournal.com]

My tutor would always overexaggerate to the point where blood vessels were popping out of her neck. But it helped me remember how to pronounce it. And I always hold back laughter when I say Tы or Bы. I agree with ladybirdsleeps for pronunciation.

[arrestthisman.livejournal.com]

If it helps, my russian teacher explained it as kind of like the sound you'd make if someone punched you in the gut. ;-)

[suku-vse.livejournal.com]

Well ... imagine that you just had a ceiling fall on your head and you're pushing it back, up with your hands, your mouth distorted very wide from the enormous effort, and a sound coming right from your throat, not the mouth. Don't know, I would emit this sound in such a situation, but I'm a native speaker.

BTW, it's a nice payback for your English ... a in bag, bad, etc.

[http://users.livejournal.com/__marginal/]

LOL!

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Oh, now I feel avenged for my continous efforts to pronounce TH. :D

[oikade.livejournal.com]

lol - you know, that's one thing that bugs me in all this.

The Lover insists I get my "ы" right (and now, thanks to this community I can, but it's still going to take me a long time to be able to use it fluidly) - while he says "dis, dat, den, dere". :P

[ars-longa.livejournal.com]

Be merciful, some people just honestly can't hear the difference, I know that 'cause when my hubby is speaking English I want to plug my ears. Not that mine is perfect, mindyou, but his dense Russian accent buggers the hell out of me. I wonder why, honestly. My African classmate's accent makes his speach barely understandable, but it doesn't irritate me at all...

And be glad that your Lover is not Ukrainian. :) Some sounds of Ukrainian language are absolutely impossible to pronounce correctly for either English or Russian speakers. :)

[oikade.livejournal.com]

Nods. We are sweet to eachother, but have fun teasing as well. :)

He tells me Russian accents on English are sexy, but Canadian on Russian is just wretched. :P

It's unfair, but it's probably all true!

And, I will be thankful he's no Ukrainian. Whew!