Posessive Adjectives

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

I recently did an extra credit translation assignment for my Russian class. When I got the graded paper back I noticed that my teacher had marked this sentence:

Там были все их родственники и друзья кроме Михаилины бабушки и Иринины тёти.

Which I had translated from:

All of their relatives and friends were there except for Michael's grandmother and Irina's aunt.

She didn't think that "Михаилины" sounded right, so she asked her husband, who is a native speaker, and he said that no one would say that. But I don't think he knew what to replace it with, or she didn't ask him. Either way, what should I have used instead of Михаилины? Мишины? Or is there another way to form the possessive adjective of Михаил? And, why is Михаилины wrong in the first place?

Comments

[ex-hevioso.livejournal.com]

Там были всех их родственники и друзья кроме бабушки Михаила и тети Ирины.

[solito.livejournal.com]

"Тёти Ирины" - это тётя Ира или тётя Иры??

[ex-hevioso.livejournal.com]

тетя Иры, да.

[solito.livejournal.com]

или тётя Ира

[mymrik.livejournal.com]

name is Irina.

[mymrik.livejournal.com]

грамотней - "бабушки Михаила и тети Ирины".

[solito.livejournal.com]

...кроме Мишиных бабушки и дедушки и Ириной тёти.

May be slightly better is:
...кроме дедушки и бабушки Миши и Ириной тёти.

[solito.livejournal.com]

>And, why is Михаилины wrong in the first place?

The possessive form of Михаил is Михаилов. I think that for native speakers all the posessive forms derived form the full Russian names sound awkward, mainly because it is the way many Russian surnames were formed. Compare the surnames: Михайлов, Иванов, Сергеев, Дмитриев etc.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Ahh, I see. I was thinking it might be Михаил-ов because I've seen дед-ов used before, I just wasn't sure when one should use the -ин, -нин, or -ов suffixes. Is there a rule for determining that, or is it just something to memorize?

And I can see the problem between possessive adjectives and Surnames. I was just trying to differentiate my vocabulary from the usual "object + genitive noun" form that possession tends to take. But thanks for pointing that out.

[solito.livejournal.com]

There are two possible suffixes: -ов (-ев) and -ин. Some names are used only with the former, some with the latter, some with both of them. The suffix depends on the ending of the original name:

If it is an unstressed vowel or soft sound then the suffix is -ин.
Анна - Аннин
Володя - Володин

If a name ends with a stressed vowel - avoid using PA.
Сафо - лирика Сафо
Пеле - фирменный удар Пеле

If the name ends in -й, then the PA ends on -ев
Сергей - Сергеев
Андрей - Андреев

All the rest form PA that usually end on -ов - and only for rare names both endings can be used. The -ин is used less frequently in this case.

Examples:

Михаил - Михаилов, (very rarely Михаилин)
Вадик - Вадиков, (rarely) Вадикин
Кирилл - Кириллов, Кириллин

Note that the use of possessive adjectives derived from names is colloquial, and is not recommended for scientific or official language. This is why many of those who replied to your post tried to avoid using these forms replacing them with the name in genitive case (бабушка Михаила). However, the colloquial language uses them widely.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

The only reason I mentioned the suffix -нин was because it seems to be used with брат (братнин) and муж (мужнин). But I suppose that it's not used in possessive adjective name construction.

And thank you very much for the detailed description. It's amazingly helpful.

[solito.livejournal.com]

It's not -нин, there are in fact 2 suffixes: -н- followed by -ин :)

[gvadelupa.livejournal.com]

Ирининой.

And we can use Мишиных only when we are pretty familiar with this Михаил. For example if Михаил is my chief I can hardly say мишиных.

[solito.livejournal.com]

Yes, it should be Ирининой - if we call her Ирина, and Ириной - if we use the diminutive form Ира. I believe that the original sentence is about children, that's why I dared to use diminutive names.

[gvadelupa.livejournal.com]

Там были все их родственники и друзья кроме Михаиловой бабушки и Ирининой тёти.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Спасибо! This is exactly what I was looking for!

[welgar.livejournal.com]

Там были все их родственники и друзья, кроме бабушки Михаила и Ирининой тёти.

[giantantattack.livejournal.com]

Спасибо :-)

[cema.livejournal.com]

Ирининой тёти ("тёти Ирины" звучит двусмысленно: может быть, Ирина — имя тёти). Бабушки Михаила ("Михайловой бабушки" звучит двусмысленно: Михайловой может быть фамилия).

Процитированный вариант, к сожалению, ошибочен (не те падежи и вообще).

[solito.livejournal.com]

Please note - Михаиловой бабушки, not Михайловой.