зимнее пальто на шелку or из шелка

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

Perhaps it's not the same thing?
Or the same thing, but not the same point of view?
PS. w. for w. "winter coat on silk"

Comments

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

Is the coat made of silk? Is it silk-lined? Or is it sitting on a separate piece of silk fabric?

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

Alas, the context does'nt help, I really don't know how a pet's coat with silk can look like (see beneath, sorry: I can't translate that ;) I would say the coat is LINED with silk (french: DOUBLE' ), but I'm not sure!

http://www.pets.kiev.ua/dog/tradicii.html, search for на шелку
В этих магазинах находятся все принадлежности, требуемые собачьей модой. А этим принадлежностям нет числа: пальто домашнее, костюм для утренних прогулок в Булонском лесу, пальто дорожное, летнее, костюм цвета мастики с золотыми пуговицами, затем парадный черный фрак, зимнее пальто на шелку с опушкою из хивинки, розовое шелковое бальное платье, подбитое горностаем...

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

Hm. Sounds to me like it's silk-lined coat trimmed with some kind of fur...I don't know what хивинка is. Strange.

[aveleen.livejournal.com]

из шелка - made of silk (completely)
на шелку - has silky lining

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

thanks !

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

aveleen has confirmed : NA = with silky lining.
хивинка - a breed of ship
Poor pets...

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

A breed of ship?

Yes, poor pets, indeed.

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

sheep
утонул :)

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

Oh! Thanks. :)

[halina.livejournal.com]

"на шелку" sounds not so good in Russian.
It can be "на меху", but not "на шелку". Especially if you speak about winter coats. ;) Or its outdated.

has silky line - "на шелковой подкладке".

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Come on. The fact that they don't use it in the poor modern новояз, or that you haven't heard this particular expression, doesn't mean that there's something wrong with it. Its a fine old Russian expression. My grandma used to say пальто на шелку (the last syllables are stressed) and, I'd tell you more, she WORE it. На шелковой подкладке, in fact, means "on a silky line," but на шелку is simply silk-lined, there's nothing wrong with it.

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

And... "spring coats"? (but is silk usually used for lining in Russia?) Not mentionning the fact that silk-lined winter coats are quite usuall in less cold countries, e.g. in France (and so are, I presume, pet coats, as suggested on the the page http://www.pets.kiev.ua/dog/tradicii.html where I found на шелку)
Anyway many thanks for you answer: owing to your post, my students won't have to learn this silly expression!

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

waw, I'll have to make an opinion poll... (but will my students often speak with grandmas?)

[halina.livejournal.com]

Not silly, a little outdated (1900s ;)...

I have a coat silk-lined, black spring-autumn coat red-silk-lined. :)) Not natural silk, of course.

The language of that extract was not literary, too eclectic.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>will my students often speak with grandmas?

very likely they will, since there is more senior citizens in present-day Russia than teenagers.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Hey, I seriously doubt that your students have to read this at all; I'm not sure if you missed the point - this text was a MOCKERY :) It describes FASHION FOR THE DOGS in terms of serious human fashion :))))

[remi-jakovlevic.livejournal.com]

Mockery is perhaps too strong because the lines I have quoted are the exact translation of what is proposed to the customers in these shops.... Rather an irony, partly due to the outdated на шелку (one of the scarce examples of пальто на шелку I have found; на шелковой подкладке is really better to bo taught ;)

[yms.livejournal.com]

"Церемонимейстер! Отдай маркизу свой кафтан на шелку,
А сам побудь в отпуску."
(Д.Самойлов, "Кот в сапогах", цитируется по памяти)

[halina.livejournal.com]

Угу, но в жизни так не говорят, слишком коряво.
Особенно "в отпуску".

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Come on, you must have been from another Russia :))))

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

>the exact translation of what is proposed to the customers in these shops

Yup, but this was a translation from 1899 issue of Друг животных - literally, The Friend Of Pets - the magazine that I could hardly call a reliable source of information :) A very, very strong irony was implied by the author, who, alas, wasn't a Chekhov or Dostoyevsky and thus wrote a bit, er, tastelessly :)))