a question

[rednameless.livejournal.com]

Приветствую. У меня есть небольшой вопрос для тех из вас, кто знает русский язык достаточно хорошо (но всё ещё не в совершенстве).

Я знаю английский язык достаточно дорошо, чтобы чётко понимать английский текст или слова (скажем, в кинофильме). Когда я читаю или слушаю английскую речь, слова выглядят/звучат для меня так же ясно, как если бы они были русскими. Я не могу понять английский лишь когда встречаю незнакомое мне слово, идиому или оборот, или, в случае с фильмами, если там слишком быстро говорят. Понять английский язык для меня не проблема, но вот вспомнить его правила, грамматику или даже просто слова (те, которые я знаю!) - достаточно трудно (и, как следствие, трудно писать правильно по английски).
Это как ходьба - вы можете просто идти, не задумываясь над тем, как именно двигаются ваши ноги, и не испытывать никаких затруднений. Но если вы попытаетесь ходить, контроллируя отдельно каждую мышцу, вы, скорее всего, не сможете сделать и шага.

Вот я и хотел бы спросить, не возникает ли у вас похожей ситуации, когда русский текст абсолютно понятен вам (исключая случаи с незнакомыми вам словами), но при попытке сказать/написать что либо по русски возникают затруднения? Например, был ли вам полностью понятен русскоязычный вариант моего сообщения, или вам пришлось смотреть и мой корявый английский текст?

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Hi. I have a little question for those of you, who knows russian language well enough (but still not perfect).

I know english well enough for clearly understanding english texts or speaking (for example, in movie). When I reading or listening english language, its words looks/sounds to me as clearly as they are writed/spelled in russian. I can't understand english only when I see unknown word, idioma or locution, or (in case of watching movie) if speaking is too fast. Understanding english for me isn't a problem, but remembering its rules, grammar or even words (those, which I know!) is hard enough (and, as a follow, hard to write correctly in english).
It looks like a walking - you can just walk, not minding about how exactly your legs moves, and there is no troubles. But if you will try to walk controlling each muscle apart, you, probably, can't make even one step.

And I want ask: have you the similar situation, when russian text absolutly clear for you (excluding cases with unknown words), but when you try to spell/write anithing in russian you have a troubles? For example, was russian text of my message absolutely clear for you, or you have to read also my ugly english text to understand the message?

/ps. I'll be thankful if one of enflish-languaged members of this community will fix my english text. ;) It will help me un future write in english more corectly.

Comments

here's an American/English edit of your question . . .

[falcon13.livejournal.com]

Hi. I have a little question for those of you who have a good, but not perfect understanding of Russian.

I have a good enough comprehension of English to clearly understand English-language texts and to watch movies. When I'm reading English text or watching an English-language movie, I can understand the English as well as I can understand my own language, Russian. The only time I don't understand English is when I see a new/unknown word or an idiomatic use of the language or if the actors in a movie speak too quickly.

Understanding English is not my problem -- I just have trouble remembering English rules, grammar and even some of the words, which makes it difficult for me to write English correctly. I think that learning English (or any other foreign language) must be like walking. When I don't have to think about each of the little pieces of walking, I can walk smoothly and automatically. But when I have to think about each muscle movement or how my legs work together, I can't take a single step. For me, writing English is like that.

So my question is: do you have similar problems with learning Russian -- when Russian is absolutely clear to you (with the exception of cases and unknown words); but do you have problems when you try to write in Russian -- like the problems I have when I try to write in English? For example, could you understand my question written in Russian or did you have to read my English translation?

Re: here's an American/English edit of your question . . .

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

One of the things I've noticed about Native Russian speakers speaking English is the word "perfect." While we use it to mean... well... flawless... they use it often to mean "finished."

For example, I once had a friend, trying to understand what I was saying about 'coming out of the closet' say, "So, you're not perfect in your homosexuality?"

perfect . . .

[falcon13.livejournal.com]

'perfect' -- that's interesting! Changing the emphasis from the first to the second syllable actually changes the meaning of the word slightly. PERfect means 'flawless', as you said. But if you pronounce the word 'perFECT', it means 'to complete something'. i.e., that was a PERfect rendition of the last movement of Beethoven's 7th Symphony . . . and I hope to perFECT the project by the end of the week. This second use of 'perfect' is very rare nowadays. ;-D

As for your 'coming out of the closet' remark, an American would understand it if you said "I'm not completely out yet" . . . the word 'perfect' would not be used.

Thanks for responding!

Re: perfect . . .

[apollotiger.livejournal.com]

Right... *grins* I'm American. I know this. ;)

Actually, from Latin, the root of the word means complete... per = through, ficio = to make... basically, perfect is seen through.

And when something is finished, it's probably flawless... so... yeah.

ha!

[falcon13.livejournal.com]

I shoulda looked to see who had responded! ::egg on face::

anyway . . .

have a good evening!

[polygonia.livejournal.com]

I'm still trying to learn the alphabet. The site of so much Russian scared me a little...

[cema.livejournal.com]

Did you mean "the sight"?

[polygonia.livejournal.com]

*grrrr* yes....

[rednameless.livejournal.com]

To be honest, I think it occurs even within one's own language

It's truth. Especially it is easy to see on internet-forums (especially for kids about 12-16 y.o.), where all forced to write, but not all can write well enough. It is because they haven't practice enough in writing (forum itself not a practice - there are no anybody requiring literacy). Or they haven't reading enough quantities of books. And, of course, they aren't remember any rules of orthography...

I remember rules of orthography and grammar badly for now, but I read much and I write much (I'm author in an russian computer-gaming magazine), so I remember just how to write words and I don't need self checking with any grammatical and orthographical rules.

So, we can make deduction - to solve "I understand but I can't say it" problem we have to had practice, practice and practice. =)

[quem98.livejournal.com]

I have just that problem in Russian. I'd imagine a lot of people do, since the Russian grammar structure is so hard for native speakers of Russian. My grammar is absolutely abysmal. I have to do translations of Newpaper articles for one of my classes. Most of the language is official sounding. We get texts from strana.ru and other such places. I can understand the article fine, but creating a translation in English that makes sense is really difficult.

Especially when I have to delineate meanings of Past participles (например: Продавщий vs Продавая или что-то в этом роде) And the nuances of perfective and imperfective. I can talk a mile a minute in Russian. I lived there for a year. I've been studying Russian for five years already, and the grammatical aspect of the language still gives me trouble.

So, you are absolutely not alone.

[fiachasorcha.livejournal.com]

I can't spell in russian at all, but I can't spell in english or spanish either, so that might just be me. It's just very annoying that I lose points on exams when I know what I want to say and I can say it, I just can't spell it.

[yitka.livejournal.com]

I have a similar problem- I understand written and spoken russian perfectly, but then when I try to respond, it seems like a child or an idiot talking. I think it's because of trying to figure out proper grammar in my head.
ps- Your english is not ugly. It's just fine, really. I suppose as a linguist you want it to be perfect, but even with a few mistakes, it's fine.

[oncelosthorizon.livejournal.com]

I really like your comparison to walking and controlling muscles... I completely understand what you mean!

I find it very difficult to spell Russian words, because the language isn't completely phonetical. German, for example, is easy because it is spelt as it is said. The hardest part for me would be the 'o's because they sound like 'a's sometimes, and I try to focus on the emphasis because I know that unemphasised 'o's usually sound similar to 'a's. When I feel like giving up, I remember how hard it must be for people trying to learn English as a second language, since it is very, very, very unphonetical! :)))