(no subject)

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

So after a good amount of time of hearing the sounds, I am now able to hear the difference between и and ы. (they used to sound the same to me)

I still can't, however, tell the difference between ш and щ. This is most likely because I don't hear the shch sound used very often at all. I was wondering if anyone can give me a good way of hearing the difference.

Although this may be wrong, I treat it as a double consonant a la Japanese. In Japanese, where you see a word that has a double consonant, like tte for example, you pause slightly before the double consonant (much like headdress or bookcase in English). Is this accurate? I also thought that maybe I should just try holding the sh sound longer and that would give me shch. I don't hear a transition from the sh sound to a ch sound, and I'm not sure if I'm supposed to or not.

Tell me if any of my theories are correct, and if not, let me know what I should be thinking lol. Thank you!

Comments

[udarnitsa.livejournal.com]

Ш is hard (you hold your tongue down low behind your front teeth to make a kind of hollow sound) and щ is not only twice as long as an ordinary consonant, but soft (you bring your tongue up near your palate to make it).

At least that’s how I’ve been doing it.

(Slightly OT: IMO, the Russians didn’t need to import the word компютер - I have no problem saying вычислительная машина - but “пишущая машина” for “typewriter” is up there with the worst of the tongue-twisters.)

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

wow those two sounds are totally different! Hope I am doing it correctly. You should write this for every language book that steered me wrong with their damn "fresh sheets" lol. Thanks!

[udarnitsa.livejournal.com]

Some books include diagrams that show what your tongue is supposed to be doing when you make a particular sound - usually an outline of a head in profile, with a line showing the position of the teeth in relation to the palate and tongue. I’ve always found them helpful.

Stupid follow-up (banging head on wall)

[udarnitsa.livejournal.com]

Actually, I described ш slightly wrong. When I said “low”, I meant the tongue as a whole, not the tip of the tongue. Your tongue should be saddle-shaped, low in the middle and high at the tip. The tip should be a little back of where it is when you make an English T or D sound.

You know how you make a hard л, with the middle of the tongue low in the mouth and the tip up high? That’s basically the same position.

[vyacheslav.livejournal.com]

One of my Russian books said it was "fresh cheese." It's always fresh something...

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

screw the cheese too! ^_^

When I try to do either fresh sheets or fresh cheese, I make the break a little too "dramatic" for lack of a better word.

[rimokon.livejournal.com]

I heard to make <щ> you act like you're imitating radio static or something.

BTW how do you pronounce Japanese word "tte"? Like tuh-teh, but really fast or...not? Lol. I heard it in a song but it was said too fast for me to notice how it was pronounced lol.

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

well in songs they don't usually pronounce double consonants like you should, just cuz they need to make the sound last longer. They sometimes pronounce the syllables separatly, but you don't in speech. Its just like saying teh, but keep your mouth in the "t" position and hold it there for a second before actually make the teh sound. Think of the pause with headdress. Your mouth is at D, but you don't say it for a slight amount of time.

[udarnitsa.livejournal.com]

But Chicago is Чикаго (adj. Чикагский), unfortunately.

[udarnitsa.livejournal.com]

I say “unfortunately” because I’m from Chicago and both the ч and the а sound wrong. (Native Chicagoans pronounce the a with the vowel in “ought”.)

[dzhozef-derfler.livejournal.com]

to me, щ kind of sounds like an 'sh' sound with a 'y' sound thrown in afterwords...(ещё = yeSHYO)...but that's just me...

[gnomygnomy.livejournal.com]

The easiest way for me to distinguish the sounds was to smile like a cheshire cat when saying one, and make an "o" with my lips while saying the other. Looks silly at first (doesn't sound too great, either), but it helped me catch on.

[imyourrushmore.livejournal.com]

actually, i just got back from russia on a trip to take russian lessons and have a chance to practice, and my teacher explained the difference to me:
ш is like the "sh" in poSH.
щ is like the "sh" in spaniSH.
if you just emphasize the "sh" in those words, you will be able to detect a slight difference in the way it comes out and the way your mouth is.
Hope it helps!!

[slotos.livejournal.com]

I think example is the best way to learn something. Here are two small (~500 Kb) cuts from songs.

http://slotos.nm.ru/10_sec_is_sh.ogg (Шут умирал… at 10sec point)
http://slotos.nm.ru/19_sec_is_sch.ogg (плаще at 18sec point)

PS: If songs cuts are not acceptable here i beg everyone pardon and ask moderators to delete this comment.

[superslayer18.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I can tell the difference now because I heard a song where they said "Praschaiyu" a lot. I'll go listen to these tracks now.