Newbie Question

[lillilah]

So, I'm just starting to learn Russian and, not surprisingly, have a bunch of questions. Of course, I'm having trouble with the soft sound and the vast amount of conflicting information on how to pronounce letters with it. However, my question today is about handwriting. I'm using a book from 1996, and in the chapter on Russian handwriting, it says that everyone is pretty much taught the same kind of fancy-looking handwriting style. Now, I know that back in the day in the US "cursive" handwriting was considered really important in schools (much to my misery), but now I get the impression that it is considered a lot less important and kids are more often allowed to print their letters. Most adults I know definitely don't use the cursive style. So, what's the story in Russia? Fancy cursive-style handwriting, hand printed Cyrillic or a mix of both?

Now, for specifics:
Тт vs. Мм - The book says that generally т's look a lot like м's, but that some people put a line over them to differentiate, and others write them so they look more like the printed т (which looks a lot like an upper case handwritten Г). Anyone have any thoughts on this? Have things changed from when the book was written?

What about putting a line under the handwritten ш to distinguish it from the handwritten и?

Thanks in advance for your help. Hopefully, this won't spark a flame war.

Comments

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

-actual cursive writing is still a huge deal in school and cursive is the rule for adults and not the exception.

-Some people use lines, some don't. Some people do т like m in writing, some don't.

[mikeybeerloving.livejournal.com]

As a matter of fact, an educated person in Russia will undoubtedly use the cursive rather than separate letters. I am pretty certain separate letters will look suspiciously inadequate.

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
There are different handwriting styles, for example here are two computer fonts used to simulate some handwriting:



Мой дядя самых честных правил,
Когда не в шутку занемог,
Он уважать себя заставил
И лучше выдумать не мог.




Съешь же ещё этих мягких французских булок да выпей чаю!

I guess one would not see the "under-scoring" and "over-scoring" in school exercises, however that is pretty usual in adults' handwriting.

[orie.livejournal.com]

- Adults don't use printed Cyrillic in handwriting, they use cursive. There's no "printed" style standart for handwriting.
- Тт don't look like Мм, they look like Шш. At school I used to put this line above Тт and below Шш to differentiate. You can also write at as printed Т, no one will notice. I also did it at school :) Actually the main idea of cursive isn't to have different style of letters, but to write a word in one strike.

In today's life you highly unlikely to meet cursive often.

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

Not sure about how fancy it looks, but most people in Russia write in cursive indeed. I've never seen an educated adult who'd write in print letters.

[divine-1987.livejournal.com]

Print letters would look really odd to me. As far as T is concerned, i write it as т.

[missis-wallace.livejournal.com]

for what you learn Russian???
let's learn together
I'll do for u Russian
and you my english ))))

That depends

[lion-casserole.livejournal.com]

.
That is pretty usual to print when you are leaving comments in technical documentation (correcting drafts or commenting on computer printouts).

[zellily.livejournal.com]

"some people put a line over/under them to differentiate" - only my grandfather did that :)

I was taught to write like this:
http://nekin.narod.ru/images/e24-ABC.gif

[icamel.livejournal.com]

Do you still write as you have been taught? Most adults don't.

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

At this early stage you certainly should learn to write and read cursive exactly the way the book says. As your language level progresses, you'll be able to tell which handwriting style is acceptable and which isn't. But if you steer away from the general rule in the very beginning, it's very likely that in the end most Russians will struggle trying to read your handwriting, and you won't be able to read other people's handwriting.

Personally I use a mix of cursive and print letters when writing on boards (actually a lot of people do that to facilitate reading), but even this mix is mostly based on cursive rather than print.

[korica.livejournal.com]

This is an example of a New Year postcard from my friend: only cursive, no line under.

[korica.livejournal.com]

For better understanding
пусть барабаны бьют, и
трубы дудят -- в общем, все
в твою честь, моя дорогая.

Счастливого Нового года,
а также прекрасной и
счастливой жизни, мой
милый канадский друг!

Мила, 2010-2011
ко мне присоединяются
Арина и Алексей!

[lillilah]

Спасибо, everyone! That really helps! Also, the writing styles that you all have posted here have far fewer little curls than the style taught in the book. Clearly, I'll have to look further into other writing styles, as I prefer a simple one for myself.

[emperor-spock.livejournal.com]

Learning to read cursive is important since people still use it if they write by hand.

If you don't really feel like writing cursive (which is understandable, as it's pure kitsch and utterly disgusting) -- don't bother, since:

a) if you write in block letters you handwriting will never be misunderstood by others, and it's perfectly alright to do so.
b) sometimes you'll even be asked to write in block letters -- filling in forms and other documents, for example.

[mikeybeerloving.livejournal.com]

I don't quite agree with that since we weren't talking about technical issues.

[lillilah]

I really like Russian music and books, so part of my desire to learn is related to that. The main reason, though, is to talk to one of my very good friends, who is Russian, in his language. His English is fantastic, so it isn't necessary - just fun.

I'd be happy to help you out with English, please feel free to message me.

[mithrilian.livejournal.com]

No, not ONLY cursive. Look again at Т in присоединяются. It's print, not cursive.

[korica.livejournal.com]

OMG, you are a comma-counter :)

[cassandraclue.livejournal.com]

haha, how is cursive writing kitsch/disgusting?

[zellily.livejournal.com]

Not exactly, but close enough.

[arashi-opera.livejournal.com]

+1

[orie.livejournal.com]

are you in Russian now? you can buy a book in which they learn kids cursive.

or you can just use something from the web, like this: http://nekin.narod.ru/e24.htm

the keyword is "пропись"

[alamar.livejournal.com]

As for pronouncing:
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9B%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BD,_%D0%AE%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%B9_%D0%91%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%B8%D1%81%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87
If you would pronounce as this guy did, you'll never be wrong.

I dearly recommend, the audio files are referenced in the article - listen to them.

[lillilah]

No, I'm in the US, but that webpage looks helpful. Thanks!