[identity profile] upthera44.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
Which is better: "эти два фильма" или "этих два фильма"?

Date: 2010-03-05 02:34 am (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
The first.

Я видел эти два фильма.
But:
Я не видел этих двух фильмов.

В этих двух фильмах режиссер хотел показать...

Date: 2010-03-05 03:03 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] racoonbear.livejournal.com
If it was talking about people it would be better "этих двоих".
"Я уже видел этих двоих - высокого и низкого".

Date: 2010-03-05 03:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] korica.livejournal.com
Эти два фильма or Два этих фильма.

Date: 2010-03-05 06:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
+1

Pretty interchangeable at that, but don't mix those two forms -- it's either эти два, or два этих.

Date: 2010-03-05 07:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jannasaban.livejournal.com
По-русски лучше: оба эти фильма.

Date: 2010-03-05 07:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
1. I would like to remind that the working language in this community is English.

2. No way. "В его фильмографии - шестнадцать лент, снятых с 1978 по 1994 год, в том числе "NNN" и "ZZZ" (оба - 1994). Два этих фильма стали последними работами режиссёра". You cannot use "оба" in this case at all. I can think of many other cases when the use of "оба" is impossible, while either эти два or два этих are quite universal.

Date: 2010-03-05 07:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jannasaban.livejournal.com
Sorry but you can use оба эти фильма in that case.

Date: 2010-03-05 07:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
No way. The use of оба means that each one of those two films was the last one, which is logically impossible. The use of "those two" means that, unlike other films, those two are united in a separated category -- the maker's last movies. It's just logic -- which implies certain stylistic.

Date: 2010-03-05 09:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] vovanium.livejournal.com
этих is animate form of accusative case. It is not applicable to film which is inanimate.
But 'два этих фильма' form is accepatble where 'этих фильма' is in genitive case.

Date: 2010-03-05 10:02 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jannasaban.livejournal.com
Wrong, of course. There is no such meaning at all. You can use оба эти фильма as well. Sorry, but stylistic it is possible.

Date: 2010-03-05 10:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
No. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise, God help me, amen.

Date: 2010-03-05 10:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jannasaban.livejournal.com
But these possibility the only one, i mean if God will help. Оба эти фильма do not means that one of them is last at all, not in fact not in stylistic.

Date: 2010-03-05 10:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alamar.livejournal.com
Два этих фильма стали последними работами режиссёра <-- bad
Оба этих фильма стали последними работами режиссёра <-- worst
Эти два фильма стали последними работами режиссёра <-- good

:)

Date: 2010-03-05 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Tend to agree.

Still, Оба этих фильма стали последними работами режиссёра - no freaking bloody way.

Date: 2010-03-05 11:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Just in case: "Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise, God help me, amen" is a popular quotation. I did not invent it. I am not Martin Luther (who did).

Date: 2010-03-05 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] malim-praedari.livejournal.com
"Оба эти фильма стали последней работой режиссёра" <- no freaking bloody way

"Оба эти фильма стали последними работами режиссёра" <- bad style but not plain illogical, like the first sentence

Date: 2010-03-08 05:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] xiefyn.livejournal.com
Okay. And how about:

Оба этих фильма сняты в прошлом году.
Оба этих фильма не стоят потраченного времени.
Оба этих фильма развивают одну и ту же тему.

In some constructions it might be preferable to use 'два' but in other constructions 'оба' might be of equal or better choice.

Date: 2010-03-08 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] alamar.livejournal.com
All three phrases are good.

All three phrases would be bad with "два", except for maybe the third.
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