вице-премьер?

[j-claire.livejournal.com]

Hi folks, I hope this question isn't out of bounds for this community but I've never known exactly what a deputy premier is?

In English deputy tends to mean there is only one - the next in line but deputy preier is a word I come across a lot.  I know it's the general name for members of the Prime minister's cabinet.  is there a difference then between a 

a) vice premier and a minister.
b) a vice premier and a (the) vice prme minister
c)I hear the phrase first vice premier a lot in English as well.  Is there a difference?

Thanks

Comments

[besisland.livejournal.com]

There are no premiers, vice premiers or deputy premiers in Russia.

The Government of the Russian Federation (I will abbreviate it as the GRF) currently consists of:

1. The President of the GRF
2. 2 Prime Vice Presidents of the GRF
3. 5 Vice Presidents of the GRF
4. 17 Ministers

The list is ranked, as you can notice. The President of the GRF is the head of the government; Vice Presidents and Prime Vice Presidents (there are total of 7 of them) substitute him on various affairs. A Prime Vice President is ranked higher than ordinary Vice President.

The President of the GRF is informally called the Prime Minister or the Premier. Correspondingly, the Vice Presidents of the GRF are informally called the Vice Prime Ministers or the Vice Premiers, and the Prime Vice Presidents of the GRF are informally called the Prime Vice Prime Ministers, or Prime Vice Premiers.

Sometimes the word “Deputy” is used instead of “Vice”, but you have already said that is not the best choice.

I have no idea why would the GRF require so many Vice Presidents; nor can I imagine the reason for two Prime Vice Presidents of the Government acting simultaneously. Well — it’s Russia!

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I am very sorry, but this is a bunch of nonsense. Surely in Russian the Prime Minister position is called председатель правительства, but the English title can perfectly be the Prime Minister. For a proof, go to the official Web site of the President of Russia:
With the State Duma’s approval, the President appoints the Prime Minister (http://president.kremlin.ru/eng/articles/institut02.shtml)
Constitution of Russian Federation (official text in English) mentions this title as The Chairman of the Government of the Russian Federation (http://president.kremlin.ru/eng/articles/ConstEng6.shtml).

Chairman of the Government, yes. President of the Goverment? Nonsense.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

The word председатель is really a calque of latin president ("sitting ahead"), but is translated into English as chairman.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

The words “chairman” and “president” have the same meaning, don’t they?

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

In British English, partly. In American English, not exactly. In Russian, not at all.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Anyway, that is not even the point. Point is, there is a prime minister in Russia (there is nothing wrong with this title, as the official site of the government proves,) and there's nothig wrong with calling заместитель председателя правительства a vice premier (somebody whose rank is higher than a minister; a VP coordinates several different ministries or commitees.)

[besisland.livejournal.com]

The Prime Minister cannot be the perfect translation of the President of the Government of the Russian Federation at least because he is no minister.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

According to the Russian law, the primary role of the Vice P. is not to coordinate several ministries or commitees (while they do), but to substitute the P. when he’s absent. That’s why they are called “заместители”.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

I am very sorry, but you do not seem to know the Russian law. If you do not know it, why mention it? According to the Article 25, Chapter 4 of the Federal Constitutional Law "On The Government Of The Russian Federation" (from April 11, 1997, in the Juny 1, 2005 edition,) the function you mention is not even included in the law (unlike the function mentioned by me.)
source (http://www.government.ru/content/rfgovernment/legalregulations/5a3737e348ba49888bda6758c83ed98b.rtf)

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

No Prime Minister in the world is a minister per se (i.e. the minister of something -- unless he doubles duties, like being Prime Minister and minister of economy at the same time.) You have to learn basics first, before you enter the argument with such self-assurance.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

See Article 8.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

We're speaking of the primary, everyday duties, not the duties performed in case of some emergency.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

To let you understand me, in Ukraine, for instance, the government is called the Cabinet of Ministers and consists of ministers only (five of them carrying the ranks of Prime Minister, Prime Vice Prime Minister and Vice Ministers).

In Russia the government consists not only of ministers. It consists of the President/Chairman, his deputies and ministers. The P. and the Vice P.’s are not ministers.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

You might notice the article 8 coming prior to the article 25.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Yes, and it precisely describes the state of emergency. Note it starts with "in case of..." unlike 25 which descrivbes the primary, everyday duties.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Well, my congratulations to Ukraine. Good for her.

It was my impression that we were speaking about Russian government here, not Ukrainian.

Would be also good if you could describe the minister of what is the Ukrainian PM.

[besisland.livejournal.com]

The point is the Prime Ministers in some countries (Ukraine, the UK etc.) are officially called ministers — not ministers of something, but prime ministers. The leader of Russian Government is not officially called minister — neither minister of some affairs nor prime minister; he is no minister at all. However, this is all quite academic and is only the question of title. There is no objection for the Chairman of the Government be called Prime Minister unofficially. And yes he can be referred to as the Prime Minister on the official sites but still unofficially.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

Заместитель (of any officer) in Russian means assistant, not only "substitute for emergency"