Semantics of adjectival position

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

Please tell me if both are correct or not:

Обед готов.
Готовый обед на столе.

If so, does the inflected word готовый denote the same meaning in both sentences -- or does the meaning differ?

Comments

[goluboglazaya.livejournal.com]

i guess the meaning is the same, but the first one sound natural whereas i have never come across the second one in speech.

[hellga.livejournal.com]

I personally have issues with the full form Готовый when applied to a human being... and just seeing either without modifiers is weird too, because this word is also often applied to food, as in pre-cooked packaged dinners, or when something is fully cooked...

[ulvesang.livejournal.com]

well replace человек with обед.

[goluboglazaya.livejournal.com]

this way both options are possible)
but in Russian new information is given at the end of a sentence (that's where the logical stress falls), so depending on what you want to stress you can say either the first sentence or the second.
am i understandable?)

[annyway.livejournal.com]

The meaning is the same, because the word is the same: "готов" is just a concise form of "готовый".

[zauberer.livejournal.com]

Meaning (lexical content) is exactly the same. There are only stylistical differences. In addition, in the first phrase the word готов is a part of a predicate (with the verbal part "есть" omitted), in the second phrase it is a definition. So, there are also syntactical difference between these two sentences.

[anabor.livejournal.com]

As a rule we say: "Обед готов." or "Обед - на столе".

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

[made a little correction]
The short adjectives are often used to denote a specific situation (as opposed to general) or a state whereas long adjectives are usually used for long-lasting/permanent characteristics. There may be certain differences in the meaning.
Он больной - he has some chronic disease
Он болен - he's sick right now
Он старый - he's old/an old man
Он стар для нее - he's too old for her

Also, short forms assume a verb right in front of them, whereas long forms don't have that restriction and either the noun or verb (usually быть) can precede them:

Красивое (long adj) дерево (subj/noun) находится (verb) у реки - correct
Красиво (short adj) дерево (subj/noun) находится (verb) у реки - incorrect

The verb to be is often dropped in the present tense, so if we substitute находиться by быть (they're synonyms when we speak about the location), it can be just
Красивое (long adj) дерево (subj/noun) ("есть" assumed here) у реки - correct

The above sentences about the tree just state a fact of the presence of a nice tree near the river.

Now if we change the word order, then both are correct:
Дерево (subj/noun) у реки ("есть" assumed here but never used explicitly) красивое (long adj) - correct
Дерево (subj/noun) у реки ("есть" assumed here but never used explicitly in such constructs) красиво (short adj) - correct too

These sentences concentrate on the fact that the tree near the river is nice. The last one probably implies a particular encounter or a temporary state of the tree (you saw it once and liked, it's nice right now or if you change the tense to the past or future, then it was or will be nice at a particular moment (e.g. when you decorated it or when it starts blossoming)).

[devitor.livejournal.com]

If the dinner is on the table, it's obvious than it's ready... so last phrase is kinda awkward. It has unnesesary specification. You can say just 'обед на столе' instead.

[goluboglazaya.livejournal.com]

no, in the second sentence готов is still an ajective defining the subject

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Готовые к вызову пожарники быстро запрыгнули в машину.
Пожарники готовы к вызову 24 часа в сутки.
You can't use готовы in the first sentence, it's outright ungrammatical. You can't use готовые in the second sentence because you're clearly talking about them being in a particular state and not just describing their inherent or long-lasting characteristic. Adjectives like красивый don't bear this explicit statefulness and you can say both:
Пожарники красивы 24 часа в сутки.
Пожарники красивые 24 часа в сутки.
although there might be a very slight awkwardness or difference in the meaning (it's probably not the best example for the latter, though).