местоимение "свой"

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

Добрый день!

Подскажите, пожалуйста, как объяснить иностранцу разницу между "свой" и прочими притяжательными местоимениями?
Я не профессиональный педагог, пытаюсь сама для себя определить разницу и не могу. Интуитивно правильно использую, а объяснить - никак.
Поможите люди добрые, урок завтра :-)


Hello!

Could one please tell how should I explain the difference between 'one's own' and other possesive pronouns to a foreigner?
I'm not a professional teacher, I try to define the difference for myself and fail do to it. Intuitively I use it correctly, but I cannot explain it.
Please, help me, the class is tomorrow already :-)

Comments

[varvarenka.livejournal.com]

Это рус. местоимение «свой» есть далеко не во всех языках. Оно есть в испанском и португальском, но упот-ребляется там только в 3 л. Ед.ч.. У нас же оно универ-сально. Важно: соблюдать правило его употребления: «свой» употребляется, когда совпадает субъект дейст-вия и субъект обладания в одной пропозиции.
«Свой» не может относится к подлежащему, к субъекту, только к объекту.
Они говорят:Он взял не свой портфель. *Свой портфель на столе Путая с личными. Дать как правило к запоминанию. Всё легко. Совет: Пользоваться учебниками по РКИ. Иначе труба вам с вашими преподавательскими экзерсисами.

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

a really interesting question for the community, but there's no translation, so here's my attempt to translate this request:

What is the difference between "[one's] own" and other posessive pronouns in Russian? Native speakers have a sort of intuitive comprehension of this difference, but how can an amateur teacher explain it to foreigners learning russian?

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the working language of this community is English. It is OK to occasionally post in Russian but you are expected to provide a translation. Thank you.

[new-intell.livejournal.com]

"Свой" обозначает принадлежность субъекту (по роли в предложении)

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the working language of this community is English. It is OK to occasionally post in Russian but you are expected to provide a translation. Thank you. (I hope that the author of the original post will correct it, too.)

[oryx_and_crake]

Please note that the working language of this community is English. It is OK to occasionally post in Russian but you are expected to provide a translation. Thank you. (I hope that the author of the original post will correct it, too.)

Go Easy on Possessive Adjectives

[nikitapopovich.livejournal.com]

Explain that a form of “свой” is used when it refers back to the subject of the sentence or phrase: “He took his book off the table but left hers there.” "Свою книгу." Explain that if you used “его книгу,” he would be taking some other person’s book off the table, not his own.

It might be useful to clarify at the same time that, say, an English-speaking foreigner should go easy on possessive adjectives in Russian because they’re often superfluous. “I don’t dye my hair” doesn’t need the “my” in Russian because people won’t assume you’re talking about dyeing someone else’s hair unless you’re a hairdresser. In that case, you might have to add a clarifying possessive adjective.

Anthony

[sithoid.livejournal.com]

My guess is that "свой" is used instead of other pronouns when the subject is already defined and the replaced pronoun would adress to the same person as the subject.

"Я взял свой портфель" - the subject is Я, "у каждого свои проблемы" - the subject is каждый, but: "Куда вы дели мои вещи", because the subject changes, and "ваши документы?", because the subject is not defined.

Looks like the guess matches ;)

[youmka.livejournal.com]

я всегда это объясняю так:
рисую на доске две пары человечков - мальчик - девочка, мальчик - девочка. это Иван и Мария, это Антон и Ольга. Иван любит Марию. Антон тоже любит Марию. Иван любит СВОЮ жену, а Антон любит не свою жену, а ЕГО жену, то есть жену Ивана. ну и так далее по тексту, пока фантазии хватит. в студенческой аудитории всегда проходит на ура. про субъект действия/обладания слишком научно объяснять не всегда надо, это целую лекцию прочитать приедтся

перевожу:

i always explain it like this. i draw two pairs of people - a boy and a girl, a boy and a girl. these are Ivan and Maria, Anton and Olga. Ivan loves Maria, and Anton also loves Maria. Ivan loves HIS OWN wife (СВОЮ), but Anton loves HIS (ЕГО, Ivan's) wife. and so on. it does work.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Consider other uses of it:
У нас своя картошка
Открывайте, (мы) свои

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

Oh, I'm sorry, I was not attentive enough to the community rules! Now I've provided the entry with translation. However, your one is pretty good as well :-)

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

I'm terribly sorry, I've already corrected myself!
Thank you for being polite :)

(I'm not sure, shall I reply in English as well?)

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

Спасибо большое, очень наглядно! Попробую так. :-)

//Thanks a lot, it's very illustrative, I'll try that

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but for the first moment I should explain the basic idea))

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

thanks! sounds quite easy to explain!))

Re: Go Easy on Possessive Adjectives

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

thanks a lot! now it becomes more and more easy for me to structure the explanation.))

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

thanks :)

[walk-of-fame.livejournal.com]

Thanks a lot, for him it could be a little bit too complicated, but for me it's ok, and I'll just put it in easier form when explaining)))

that's really funny :))

[youmka.livejournal.com]

дык годы, опыт :)) обращайтесь, если что, - подскажу

that's experience :)) you're welcome, i could help, if you need

[andreyshell.livejournal.com]

zanuda
:О))

[oryx_and_crake]

It's practically a part of my job description.

[tatuzzz.livejournal.com]

the only language i have met the equivivalent so far is danish..and our teacher explained it that way

Micheal has a friend John. MICHAEL IS DRIVING IN HIS CAR.

In English it can be both HIS OWN car or HIS friend's car..we can not know it from sentence but only from context.

In Russian we have those pronouns so if Micheal is driving in his OWN car - It will be SVOEI...if in his friends - EGO.

I guess it is a bit confusing, my classmates (not russian speaking) had a hard time to understand the difference.