(no subject)

[upthera44.livejournal.com]

Why is the word одновременно sometimes pronounced одновремЕнно instead of одноврЕменно? The second pronunciation, as I understand it, is technically correct right?

I am guessing this is just another word in Russian like твОрог / творОг, which has two pronunciations. If so, what other words are like this? Thanks.

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

одноврЕменно is wrong (even though some people use it), одновремЕнно is correct

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Reminds of a joke about Gorbachev:
-Михаил Сергеевич, как по-английски будет "нАчать"?
- BEgin!

одновремЕнно is not technically correct and never will be because stress cannot fall on an infix normally (probably there are exceptions but this is the general rule). People however will make all kinds of crazy mistakes because of lack of education or exposure to a local dialect.

[oryx_and_crake]

I don't know what is an infix but I can give you a lot of examples where stress goes on "енно": совершенно, смиренно, нетленно, незабвенно etc.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Infix is "суффикс", in Russian stress does not normally fall on the changing parts of a word, in your examples stress still falls in the stem but I believe there are exceptions as I said earlier.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_lost__soul_/]

There are many words in Russian with two pronounciations - one of them is correct and another is "common" but wrong. You can always check which is correct here (http://gramota.ru) (search the word, correct stress will be marked red),

[oryx_and_crake]

still falls in the stem
---
No it does not: совершенно <- совершать
смиренно <- смиряться, смириться etc.

BTW I think that in одновременно "ен" is not an suffix at all - it is a part of the stem (compare to времена, времени).

[skogens-kjole.livejournal.com]

Both are correct.

[cxielamiko.livejournal.com]

I prefer одновремЕнно.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

In одновременно -ен is plain old adverb infix (suffix in English is the ending of the word, not Russian "суффикс") about "совершенно" it's an exception because with regular stress it would mean past neuter passive of совершать, about смиренно you probably be right, I thought for sme reason it could be stemmed not from мир but from смирна, my mistake. It's an exception for the same reason совершенно is.

[alek-morse.livejournal.com]

I too.

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

orz
When writing simultaneously in Russian and English I make more mistakes than usual in both, I am sorry.

[cranberry-babe.livejournal.com]

there first thing that came to my mind is свеклА and свЁкла (a beetroot)
the second one is correct, but many people use the first one
and it tears my ears into pieces when I hear the wrong pronunciation of some word :))

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

well, there also is a word "единоврЕменно" which stresses the 4th syllable

Probably some mixture takes place, resulting in "одноврЕменно" as an example of incorrect pronunciation

[liludalas.livejournal.com]

upd

well, it's not incorrect, rather it's used less
O_o

[the-oldest.livejournal.com]

No way.

[andreyshell.livejournal.com]

http://gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%EE%E4%ED%EE%E2%F0%E5%EC%E5%ED%ED%EE&all=x

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Thing is, одноврЕменно is marked as correct in the new Словарь ударений для работников радио и телевидения (Radio & TV Stress Dictionary.) It has never been regarded as correct before. The authors of the dictionary have admitted that this recommendation is erroneous, and promised to fix this error in the next edition. Anyway, this error had already done a lot of harm, as many people on the radio and TV started to force themselves to follow this "new norm."

The "old" (and only correct) norm is одновремЕнно.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Also words like звонит: звонИт (correvt) vs звОнит (incorrect, but widely used) (http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%E7%E2%EE%ED%E8%F2%FC&all=x). Try searching in this dictionary (http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/info/gorb/about/). There appears to be a lot.

[skogens-kjole.livejournal.com]

Well, they are. Nowadays both stresses are equivalent.

[icamel.livejournal.com]

Today Мария Каленчук , deputy director of institution for russian language of RAS (института русского языка РАН) in Speaking Russian (Говорим по-русски (http://echo.msk.ru/programs/speakrus/)) show on radio Echo of Moscow (echo.msk.ru) said that твóрог/творóг is the only pair of equally correct variants of stress in russian.

[skogens-kjole.livejournal.com]

I meant they are equivalent... anyway ;)

[towarysc.livejournal.com]

Btw, звОнит used to be incorrect, but now it is just 'not recommended'. It means that in about 30 years it will become correct:)

[serpent-849.livejournal.com]

I say it this way in very informal situations (mostly to my mom because she also often says it this way for fun :D)

Stress Problems

[nikitapopovich.livejournal.com]

Others have already made, in my opinion, very good comments about stress and stress ambiguity in Russian, but I’d like to add a few comments since free stress is among the factors that make Russian one of the most difficult Indo-European languages to learn to speak correctly.

Before the Revolution, the Russian elite who had been educated largely by tutors and in fancy schools were generally very sensitive to what some of them considered correct stress as the mark of an educated person. Most of them are dead today, but if you had met one who had found refuge from the Revolution, say, in France, you would have heard their remarks about “uncouth” pronunciation when they criticized, for example, the widespread Russian stress of the past tense of the verb “отдать” in the masculine form on the last syllable instead of the first, in other words, “отдАл” instead of “Отдал.”

During the Soviet period, radio and TV disseminated a standard Russian pronunciation that was laid down in handbooks for announcers. Not every native speaker agreed with every prescribed form in the handbooks, but that was the standard set by the State media, where it was followed religiously. In my opinion, the standard was pretty good. Language, however, changes, and what is a no-no today might well be a yes-yes in 50 years. Even in the USSR acclaimed linguists conservatively admitted language variations that had become widespread. Reference books published after the collapse of the Soviet Union appear to be much more liberal than their predecessors. The learner of Russian today, I believe, is going to have to depend on such reliable works in order to be sure of an acceptable pronunciation of a word.

A most amusing instance of stress ambiguity occurred a while ago on a popular Moscow radio station where an announcer was confronted with a word for an exotic fish she didn’t know how to pronounce. The announcer said in her usual charming manner: “Oh, my goodness, I don’t know where the stress is in this word.” The word had three syllables so she had three possibilities to choose from. She finally hit on an unusual pronunciation and stuck with it throughout the program. The word was “нетопырь,” which is used for both the batfish and a kind of bat known as a “noctule” in English.

Anthony

[elwen-tindomiel.livejournal.com]

свЁкла и свеклА
каталОг и катАлог
договОр и дОговор

I always prefer first variants.))

[sibir-muzhyk.livejournal.com]

КОмпас (ordinary people) и компАс (sailors, seamen and mariners)

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

LOL! :) How would one know which one is first? In some words the stress should be closer to the beginning, in others closer to the end. Yet some words accept both stress locations (sometimes both considered correct or OK).

[elwen-tindomiel.livejournal.com]

By "first variants" I meant the first variants from the pairs I wrote.

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, that doesn't serve as a general rule of any kind and helps little to learn the accentuation. :(

[elwen-tindomiel.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, yes.(

[archaicos.livejournal.com]

Here's a slightly different one: текстовОй и тЕкстовый (http://www.gramota.ru/slovari/dic/?word=%F2%E5%EA%F1%F2%EE%E2%FB%E9&all=x). The accent location differs and the vowel in the last syllable.

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

Hey, man, this is a real holy war regarding stresses in russian words ))
Actually, there are 2 main trends in Russian language.
1st is high style (old style, correct) - mostly keep stress of original word: "врЕмя" - "одноврЕменный".
2nd is low style: move the stress on the end of the word and typically use "a" instead of "и, ы" for plurals.
Correct, old, high style - "шофЁры".
Modern, low style - "шоферА".

[gauchette.livejournal.com]

it hurts me.

I want to understand this joke

[mortimer-ford.livejournal.com]

Does that translate to - How does Mikhail Sergeyevich say "нАчать" in english?

I'm assuming 'BEgin' sounds like a Russian word I'm not familiar with.

Re: I want to understand this joke

[kunaifusu.livejournal.com]

Gorbachev - the first and the last president of USSR, speaks Russian as a second language
начАть - "to begin" in Russian
нАчать - Gorbachev's way to pronounce "начать"
bEgin - "begin" with the stress on the first syllable

Re: I want to understand this joke

[mortimer-ford.livejournal.com]

Ahh, syeyches ya penyamaiou. Thankyou.

[konstkaras.livejournal.com]

There's a one-man play by e_grishkovets called ОдноврЕмЕнно.