(no subject)

[nursedianaklim.livejournal.com]

Again, I beg you to bear with me, as I'm still very new to this.

In some words, like Где, when I read the suggested pronunciation, it says (gdye), but when I listen to the word spoken, it sounds like (gdzye), like there's a Z sound attached to the D. Is this what a palatalized д sounds like? I think the hard/soft consonant aspect is probably one of the more difficult pronunciation bits for me to learn, and when I've been trying to practice, my д's didn't sound like that, so I'm wondering if I have been doing it wrong.

Comments

[technocrator.livejournal.com]

Где must be spoken as "gde", without z

[pigmeich.livejournal.com]

It's sure "gde", not "gdze". Yes, Russian "дэ" a bit harder than `di'.

[http://users.livejournal.com/antiquer_/]

It may sound as "дз", but actually it is "д" with palatalization - a more buzzing sound, than simple "д"

[merry1978.livejournal.com]

There shouldn't be any z after a palatalized д. You can hear there something like Y in the word "year", but it's an automatical transformation of the palatalized д in some positions, so do not try to actually pronounce any additional sounds in there.

Just try to move the tip of your tongue a bit farther from teeth and a bit closer to the roof of the mouth.

I'll try to post a picture later, if you wish.

[http://users.livejournal.com/antiquer_/]

The tip of the tongue should be in about the same place, I suppose. However, the rest of the tongue should be closer to the palate.

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Remind me next time we're on the phone, I can demonstrate. There's not a 'z' but sort of a 'ye' instead of just 'e'.

I think I get what you mean though, hopefully I can get it across out loud since I can't think of words to explain it!

[aromanov.livejournal.com]

pronouncing "z" is kinda accent. some people really talk like that. you can listen to Russian singer Alsou for example. she sings like that. but it's wrong. speech coaches even call it "дзяканье" (dzyakaniye, it means "talking dz"). the same is with "ts" like in "тень" (shadow). some say tsen' and it's wrong.

and try to remember another one "classical" rule. when you say "dozhdi" ("rain" plural) you shouldn't pronounce second "d". it should sound like dozhzhi (long soft zh, Russian ж). most of Russians say "dozhdi" with hard second "d", but it's wrong.

[whitest-owl.livejournal.com]

Huh? Where did you get that??? I've never heard дожди without second "д".

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

Подожди-дожди-дожди...

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

"Дождь" pronounced as "дощь", "дожди" pronounced as "дожьжи" are obsolescent variants. They were standard up to the 70s-80s, I think. Same with softening the "p" in words like "сверху", "четверг" ("сверьху", "четверьг") etc.

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

It is "old Moscow accent". Listen to Vladimir Kuzmin imitating it: "запевала дожжжжжь... заапеваалаа дожжжь..."

[racoonbear.livejournal.com]

It is also "old Moscow" style. Almost nobody talks in this way now.

[malim-praedari.livejournal.com]

I do catch myself saying "дощь" sometimes (never "дожьжи", though).

[mark-y.livejournal.com]

If you listen to the TV and radio speakers, or actors reading books, or still some singers, in short - men and women who were professionally drilled to speak correctly, all of them do:
1. soften both consonantal sounds before the softening vowel (дверь sounds not like "дверь", but like "дьверь" [д'в'эр'], where both - "д" and "в" are softened with the only post-consonantal softening "е"; стекло sounds like "сьтекло", not "стекло", where both "с" and "т" are soft before the softening vowel).
2. say "дощь" and "дожьжи" instead of "дождь" and "дожди", it is the rule that "ж" is always soft and it adsords some consonantal sounds. For ex., the correct pronounciation is, "жюльета" (not "джульета") - when we read the name of Джульетта... And when we talk about a bee, we pronounce жужжит like "жюжит" instead of "жужыт", if we mean a literary speech (which is sometimes different from the Old Moscow school, so we cannot say it's an old Moscow pronounciation).
3. read "шт" and "шн" when it's written -чт- and -чн-. Конечно - "канешна" (not "канечна"), что - "што" (not "что"), сердечный - "серьдешный" (not recommended "серьдечный")... And they begin argue when they meet some other words - коричневый (каришневый or каричневый?), гречневая (грешневая or гречневая?)... But the talk is cheap.
4. say одноврЕменно and never одновремЕнно. Though the rules of pronounciation allow using both kinds of stresses, the rules of TV and readio speakers' pronounciation dictates chosing одноврЕменно.
5. keep the rules of pronounciation - if they mean to be those rules keepers )))))

We are talking off-top, aren't we? ))))

[nursedianaklim.livejournal.com]

Will do, as atm, Anya is confused.

[aromanov.livejournal.com]

дожди. can you see two "Д" in this word? ;) second д is silent. and this is correct.

[aromanov.livejournal.com]

Absolutlely not. This is not "old Moscow accent". This is the only proper pronounsation in classical Russian. I'm very sorry. And Kuzmin is right. Дождь sounds like "дощь".

[aromanov.livejournal.com]

No we don't. There are rules of Russian language. Noone ever abolished them. This is not offtop only because "gdzye" and "dozhd'" is both wrong. And sure some can say "ложить" instead of "класть", but this is not how we should present our Great Language to foreigners.

[gemelo.livejournal.com]

You remind me a line from Konstantin Kinchev's song, where he emphasized such accent - "ты только взгляни какой шёл дожь а щас - дожжя нет :))))
It was very funny for me to hear it)))

Palatalized Consonants

[nikitapopovich.livejournal.com]

Palatalized consonants are one of the many difficult features of Russian. Since this particular pronunciation doesn’t exist in English, all explanations with English comparisons sound like the story about the blind men trying to find out what an elephant looks like. The best way to learn how to pronounce “gde” and all the others near to accuracy is to find a Russian for a few intensive pronunciation lessons.

Anthony