[identity profile] upthera44.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian

Which of these are correct: 

Я рад, что...
Я рад тому, что...

Я верю, что...
Я верю тому, что...

Я разочаровался в том, что...
Я разочаровался, что...

I often encounter such verb constructions that take a particular case, but I sometimes here some of them used with just  "что" afterward, rather than "тому, что" (or whatever the case is). Is there a rule for this? Is it usually interchangable? Or does it completely depend on the verb or construction?

Date: 2007-12-03 12:32 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
In first two cases both variants are correct. In third, both are wrong - you cannot use разочаровался this way at all. It is разочароваться в ком, в чем, (в тебе, в жизни, в любви), not разочароваться, что.

Date: 2007-12-03 12:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zveriozha.livejournal.com
Just use "Я разочаровался в + noun/pronoun."

Date: 2007-12-03 12:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aylie-serinde.livejournal.com
The verb разочароваться demands an object and a preposition в. Я разочарован чем-то - a passive form.

Date: 2007-12-03 12:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] paul-nsk.livejournal.com
"Я верю тому, что..." is not good. You should say "Я верю в то, что..." + [a fact] or "Я верю " + [a person]

"Я верю в то, что Земля - круглая"
"Я верю астрологам"

Date: 2007-12-03 01:09 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
No, it is not. See my previous comment.

Date: 2007-12-03 02:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gera.livejournal.com
I am disappointed that... = Я разочарован (тем), что...

Date: 2007-12-03 03:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] http://users.livejournal.com/_olmec/
Я верю, что...
Я верю тому, что...

The first case is correct for example Я верю, что всё будет хорошо.
The second isn't correct. We usually say "Я верю во что-то" или "Я верю кому-то" I think it is better to say: "Я верю в твою победу", "Я верю в то, что говорит президент Путин" or "Я доверяю тому, что говорит президент." (it is better)

So sometimes it is interchangeble, but one version sounds better than another, sometimes it depends on verb that you use.

Date: 2007-12-03 04:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com
Not convincing.

Разочарован в том, что мне все эти годы пытались прививать.
И разочарован в том, что другие называют жизнью.

Aren't subordinate clauses, essentially, as a whole, often just like an object? Pretty noun-like ones :) .

Date: 2007-12-03 04:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com
Я верю тому, что написано в умных книжках.

The two cases do have a bit different meanings, but they really are possible.

Date: 2007-12-03 04:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pinky-the-cow.livejournal.com
They are not interchangeable, they're chosen according to the occasion. All forms are possible, but they have a different meanings.

"Я рад, что..." translates simply into "I'm glad, that..." with all possible variations after that.
"Я рад тому, что..." means approximately "I'm glad about something, and that something is (or lies in)...". In some, not all, cases it's an equivalent of simple "I'm glad, that..."

I think, that same stays true for "верю" case.

As for "разочаровался", I agree that without "в" preposition it shouldn't be used, just like _olmec points out.

Date: 2007-12-03 04:59 pm (UTC)

Date: 2007-12-03 07:07 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Sounds pretty artificial, but, I suppose, acceptable.

Date: 2007-12-03 09:37 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Я верю тому, что сказал президент is perfectly fine
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