[identity profile] freiburg234.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian
Dear Community,

Could you please help me clarify the meanings of "настоян", "настоян на" and "настоян на травах" as used in the context:

"Воздух настоян на травах" - It seems to mean, approximately, "The air is drenched/filled/saturated with the scent of grass". But I may be totally wrong as far as that goes.

The main difficulty is that I can't seem to match up the grammar logic behind the use of the passive verb "настоян", presumably "is drenched" with the preposition "на" and the prepositional case.

It seems that the literal Russian understanding here is, "The air is drenched in the grasses" which apparently means "The air is saturated with the scent of grass" or "The air smells of grass".

Any background on the literal understanding of the Russian terms? How does this construction make sense to Russians?

Thank you in advance for your kind input.

ФБ

Date: 2007-07-24 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Настаивать на травах means to make a herb cordial. Direct meaning of "настоян на травах" can only be applied to liquids, specifically - to cordials, strong alcoholic beverages brewed with herbs, fruits, berries etc. What we see here is a typical figurative meaning: it means that the air is so full of herbs scent that it smells like a strong herb cordial.

P.S.

Date: 2007-07-24 05:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Note that "травы" (plural) in Russian is not only "grasses," it's also "herbs."

Date: 2007-07-24 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zhp.livejournal.com
no, it doesn't mean that in most contexts, but in the sentence you quoted the explanation given by wolk_off is correct. Literally, again, as wolk_off explained, настаивать на травах means to make a herbal infusion, a cordial. When you do that with some aromatic substance, the liquid you get would smell of that substance. Like, for example, you can have vodka with herbs, etc. When it is said about air, the meaning here is metaphorical.

Date: 2007-07-24 05:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zhp.livejournal.com
Here - http://www.farmaco.ru/aa5.html - you can find some recipes of настойки_, things you get after alcohol настоян на травах, на ягодах, etc.
Most examples of this expression coming into my head right now are about alcohol, like, В их семье из поколения в поколение передавался рецепт водки, настоянной на рябине.
Or,Мой дедушка делал самогон, настоянный на апельсиновых корках.

Date: 2007-07-24 06:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zhp.livejournal.com
Yep, you are right. When you say "настоян на травах", it literally means that some quantity of herbs is taken and alcohol is poured over it and then you let it STAND for some time so that the smell is transferred into the liquid (настаивать comes from стоять).

Date: 2007-07-24 06:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] scolar.livejournal.com
Not only based on herbs/berries. For instance, 50% orange juice is based on oranges and water, but it's not right to say that it's "настоян на апельсинах". The verb "настаивать" (means "делать настойку" here) implies a long process: first you put the ingridients together, then you wait for herbs/berries scent to be extracted.

Date: 2007-07-24 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] zhp.livejournal.com
"The air has been stood in an herbal concoction".
Does THAT make sense to you?
The literal meaning is that the air smells of herbs as if it were a liquid which has undergone the described procedure.

Re: P.S.

Date: 2007-07-24 06:31 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com

So "настоян на травах" is a set construction in Russian that means "is concocted/brewed with herbs/on herbs." This is its direct meaning. Its figurative, metaphorical meaning is, as you say, "full of herbs scent".

Here's a nice example from Mikhail Bulgakov's "Master and Margarita":

Ходят слухи, что он совершенно перестал пить портвейн и пьет только водку, настоянную на смородиновых почках, отчего очень поздоровел

The rumors are that he completely gave up drinking Porto vine, and now drinks only vodka concocted on black currant buds, which made him much more healthy.

Here, настоянный is used in its direct meaning: a cordial based on something, in this case on black currant buds, believe it or not. This means that vodka was poured over a substantial quantity of black currant buds, and then left for several weeks or months, so that vodka became a black currant cordial, an alcohol beverage that smells like black currant but is as clean and strong as vodka.

Date: 2007-07-24 06:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Do you know the difference between "direct," literal meaning and figurative meaning, the metaphor? This is a metaphor. NOT literal meaning. It means that the air smells like herbs, AS IF IT WERE a herb cordial. See?

Date: 2007-07-24 07:43 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oblomov-jerusal.livejournal.com
No, the literal meaning is that the air has undergone that procedure.

Date: 2007-07-24 08:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Well, yeah, this metaphor -- воздух, настоянный на травах -- also means that the herbs were growing for a while and filled the air with their scent, not that the smell just sprang out of thin air in an instant :)

Re: P.S.

Date: 2007-07-25 11:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] khathi.livejournal.com
You constantly do one significant mistake hese, AFAIU. "Concocted" means "boiled with", while "настоян" would be "steeped on". Also, "brewing" is a process of bacterial fenmentation, done with yeasts or lactobacilli (most usually), not steeping or boiling.

Re: P.S.

Date: 2007-07-25 12:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
You constantly forget that I am not a native English speaker and therefore have right to lack certain vocabulary :) The process I described as настаивать was still steeping, and those who read the description carefully would tell it from brewing right away (though even Oxford dictionary gives "to brew" for "настаивать," so my lack of knowledge is, at least, quite common.)

Date: 2007-07-26 09:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spiritrc.livejournal.com
I think I can comment on the use of "на" preposition. The word "настоян" is derived from "стоять" meaning that you pour some (usually) alcohol over some herbs/fruits/whatever-that-has-a-scent and leave it to stand there for some long time till the scent is extracted. You leave it "постоять" и "настояться" (that is "постоять достаточное количество времени"). Since one of the usual prepositions for "стоять" is "на" (стоять на траве), you may say that alcohol "стоит на травах". Thus, the same preposition is used for "настаиваться", "настояться" and "настоять" (also meaning "to insist" and used in that meaning with the same preposition "на").

I hope this helps.
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