[identity profile] padruka1988.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] learn_russian

Hi again, what are the best ways to say the following? From a dictionary and from a textbook, I have conflicting answers.

Birth rate
Death rate
Abortion rate
Migrant rate

Can I use the same word for "rate" for all of the above? Коэффициант? Or no?

Date: 2007-05-02 11:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
In this case, it's уровень - уровень рождаемости, уровень смертности and more questionable, but still widely used уровень абортов and уровень миграции.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-denisie.livejournal.com
уровень рождаемости
уровень смерти

etc

Date: 2007-05-02 11:06 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
The first two are рождаемость and смертность. I'm not sure there's a fixed expression for the other two.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Isn't уровень рождаемости/смертности a pleonasm?

Date: 2007-05-02 11:09 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-denisie.livejournal.com
He's right, don't worry

Date: 2007-05-02 11:11 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Уровень смерти?!!!

I'm somehow not convinced when you tell me not to worry.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:12 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Whatever it is, it is widely used, on the level of a professional term. Most of professional terms are not very nice from the point of view of "normal" language.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:14 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Уровень рождаемости and уровень смертности are stylistically terrible, but widely used professional terms (http://bd.fom.ru/report/whatsnew/d071222/).

Date: 2007-05-02 11:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Isn't it misused in its very capacity as a professional term?

Date: 2007-05-02 11:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mr-uef.livejournal.com
the keyword would be уровень (more universal) or темпы (except for abortions, simply количество would be more appropriate here).

Date: 2007-05-02 11:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Do we have to teach stylistically terrible Russian?

Date: 2007-05-02 11:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
We have to teach them what has to be used in exactly this setting. The poster obviously translates some kind of a statistics information. Statistics, being an applied branch of math science, has its own professional lingo. It is incorrect to apply "normal" language to the situation when a porfessional lingo must be applied. That's pretty much it.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:31 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
Well, you would not insist on using the correct кОмпас instead of seaman's компАс in a book about sailing and sailors, wouldn't you? This is exactly the case.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
I wouldn't.

But personally, I wouldn't want to even open a book about the kind of people who say «уровень рождаемости».

Date: 2007-05-02 11:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
I personally would not even bother to learn what the statistics is, but then what?

Date: 2007-05-02 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Sailors are more entitled to incorrect language than are statistics people, says I.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cooleach.livejournal.com
Уровень рождаемости
Уровень смертности
Количество абортов
Количество мигрантов

Date: 2007-05-02 11:42 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-denisie.livejournal.com
ой, смертности конечно же, опечатался =)

Date: 2007-05-02 11:43 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-denisie.livejournal.com
там нужен именно коэффициент (в процентах), количество doesn't pass.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:43 am (UTC)

Date: 2007-05-02 11:55 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
Okay, time for my Gandalf moment. (in a thundering voice) There's nothing unprofessional about just "рождаемость" and "смертность". It's both professional and correct. The only excuse for "уровень рождаемости" and "уровень смертности", which are strictly speaking levels of levels and rates of rates, is that alleged professionals allegedly use it a lot. Which, if true, only goes to show that they're terribly verbose people. Do not take me for some conjuror of cheap tricks, please drive home safely, etc.

Date: 2007-05-02 11:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] wolk-off.livejournal.com
I am afraid you had no idea how badly spoilt the statistics people could be these days.

Date: 2007-05-02 12:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] freedomcry.livejournal.com
I didn't mean that. I'm okay with компАс because it has a sea feel to it that no – er – statistics feel can quite match.

Date: 2007-05-02 03:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] joliecanard.livejournal.com
Russian loves to use pleonasms in official speech.

Date: 2007-05-02 04:12 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] nastya-23.livejournal.com
Рождаемость [Показатели рождаемости бывают разные, может, имеется в виду коэффициент воспроизводства]
Смертность
Количество абортов на душу населения (на сто человек, на тысячу человек)
Количество мигрантов на душу населения (на сто человек, на тысячу человек).

Date: 2007-05-02 07:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] towarysc.livejournal.com
Количество абортов/мигрантов НА ДУШУ НАСЕЛЕНИЯ??? OmG...

Date: 2007-05-02 08:10 pm (UTC)
oryx_and_crake: (Default)
From: [personal profile] oryx_and_crake
Why not? What's wrong with that?

Date: 2007-05-02 08:34 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] towarysc.livejournal.com
Well, maybe nothing wrong, just in my inflamed imagination there are scary pictures of душа населения making a number of aborts or lying under a number of migrants... I see that denography is an exact science where fractions rule, but still...

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