Presentation Help.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I am once again talking to a group of Americans who work with our exchange students (who are from the countries of the former USSR) about the peoples and cultures of the former Soviet Union. I have been warned that I will be asked to provide an explanation for why our kids seem so pessimistic/negative.

I have a couple ideas on how I could explain this:

(1) If we are to look at the grand scheme of things, Americans are actually ridiculously optimistic. Russians are, on average, at the other end of the spectrum. (An interesting article that lo5an forwarded to me about just this.) One could argue, however, that this is just as much the effect as it is the cause.

(2) Life in the countries of former Soviet Union is simply harder than it is the United States, and has been for quite a while. Even though most people believe that things are improving now, the changes in society over the last 25 years have also been very stressful.

(3) In addition, many people feel like they don't have control over what happens to them and don't have choices/opportunities in life - due to their economic situation, the structure of society, etc.

Any thoughts? I'd especially welcome any comments from people who have a good understanding of both American and Russian/Soviet culture.

(x-posted to lovimoment and russophiles)

Comments

[oryx_and_crake]

Just tell them that it is not in the Russian culture to smile incessantly with showing all of one's 40 teeth. Permanent American smile is just a culture-specific thing and the Americans should not expect people from other cultures to behave in the same way. If a Russian kid is not smiling at you it does not mean that he is unhappy or angry. It is a normal facial expression.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

That is a good point to make. In fact, our students all joke that they return home with "American smiles" and it takes them a while to adjust back.

I'll just tell them that Russians have bad teeth and don't like to show them to other people. :)

[kali-kali.livejournal.com]

Also be sure to note that "peoples and cultures of the former Soviet Union" includes more than just Russians. There are hundreds of other groups within those countries. All of these peoples may have different views with regards to optimism/pessimism, quality of life, and so on.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I totally agree. Honestly, the perception of pessimism seems to be mostly with the Russian and Ukrainian students. It's difficult to explain that to this group, though, because

(1) I don't want to sound racist, and

(2) these cultures (though different) are still very connected, and

(3) I don't want to lead the discussion toward the difference in being "russkii" rather than "rossiiskii" (ethnicity versus citizenship), i.e., if a student is ethnically Russian but he's from Turkmenistan, should we expect him to act like a Turkmen student or a Russian student?

My answer to this is: you should not expect anything, everyone is an individual...but that answer will not make them happy.

[marta-mb.livejournal.com]

It's pretty insightful.
(1) Well, I wouldn't say Americans are too optimistic. Americans are ridiculously brainwashed in every aspect and biologised. The latter word means something like 'reduced to a mere biological level, primitive, having no interests but success, sex, fashion etc.' As for Russians, the main negative thing is the fact (or so it seems) that they are pretty conventional. I always used to be fascinated by Russian girls wearing the same type of ass-tight jeans, bare bellies and cooled beers at minus 15. Add to this impoliteness, abundancy of dirty language, and chaos, e.g. in university exchange programmes.
(2) Life is unbelievably hard and dreary, particularly in rural areas. And it seems to be due to the ruling US-oriented government and consequently directly to the US. So the Cold War seems to be going on forever despite the silly enthusiasm about democracy and western people that Russians tend to have.
(3) It's hard to see any positive things about Russia. I think it's a personal thing. As for me I was profoundly moved by talking with Russian old ladies and rural people. It was quite a contrast! They are absolutely wonderful, responsive, kind, hard working and honest. I am happy I met them and proud that they regard me as their friend.

[marta-mb.livejournal.com]

I'll just tell them that Russians have bad teeth and don't like to show them to other people. :)

Are you VERY stupid, or just moderately?

[oryx_and_crake]

Please refrain from abusive personal comments. Thank you.

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

This is random, but do you mind if I share your #3 with my Russian grandma? :) It would make her smile, she's always down on herself for being 'rural and old' even though my friends and I adore her.

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Oh, man, this is one of those things where I have to ponder it for awhile before answering the best way I can. And a question I shouldn't tackle on no sleep, so no one get offended ;)

I was born in the US & moved to Russia when I was 16. I'm possibly the least optimistic American on record ;) (No doubt because of my life, I'm sure.) Between my Russian and American friends/family, there's not a huge gap in optimism, it's just different, and shown in different ways. America is on the side of Disneyland, where everyone is great and happy, and even if they're not, they smile and pretend to be. Even if you haven't slept in 3 days to work more hours to buy that pool for your kids, you smile at the neighbours, damnit! You've gotta be happy, one of these days you'll make it.

In Russia, I more felt the influences of harder times through things like, grandmas have jars of compote and pickles hidden away, or ten pairs of slippers under the sink. But the people I know are still hopeful and positive that, no matter how hard it is, their kid WILL go to university, or they WILL get a car, etc. It's more of a 'get through this obstacle' optimism, but still. I admire it.

[marta-mb.livejournal.com]

Where did you see abusive comments? can't you see that the comment about teeth is much more insulting? Or are you all right for being insulted by Americans?

[devinshire.livejournal.com]

Oh, god. Not the "American smile!" I can't even tell you how much the Russians' incessant jabbing about the "American smile" bothered me. It struck me as ignorant and offensive. How did they expect me to respond to that?

[miconazole.livejournal.com]

Just a joke. Chiiilll.

[shariperkins.livejournal.com]

I don't see how #1 applies to Americans more than Russians, to tell the truth, at least in terms of primitive interest in sex, fashion, etc.

[marta-mb.livejournal.com]

If you'd lived in the same corridor as me with similar neighbours having booze-ups every night until 4 am, then you'd have seen.

[msmiss.livejournal.com]

I think what you said of the 2 different "optimistic outlooks" are great examples. I was going to say something similar, but I think you pretty much did it for me! Thanks!

[kegarawashii.livejournal.com]

Russians just don't bother trying to hide whatever they feel. A Russian would rarely answer the usual "I'm fine" when asked "How're you?". It's likely that you'd have to listen to the whole history of his/her troubles.
After all, it's America that is stereotypically known to consume antidepressants with or without reason.
It's not a pathologic depression within post-Soviet area. It's just what Russians do all the times - sharing emotions, when it's appropriate and when it's not. Those smiling all the time are labeled unnatural and insincere. Blame the culture, if you like. Or just take it as something completely different and original.

[la-dy-ashley.livejournal.com]

concerning the Russian answer to ¨how are you¨:
I once opened a Russian language textbook printed in the US and written by American authors; on the first page there was a picture of a smiling guy and the following text under it:
¨Привет! Как дела? Меня зовут Иван Рабинович. Я русский!¨

Although the phrases are 100% grammatically and lexically correct:), they are not natural, in no way. We normally don't use "Как дела?" just as a geeting, which is the usual way for not only Americans but most Europeans. It is a question you ask when you really want to know how the person in going, like you you (s)he is back from a doctor's or (s)he had an exam an hour ago etc.
Our university teachers are always shocked by American (that's the majority of foreigners) who come to classes for the first time and the first words are, like, "Привет! Как дела? Я Джон" etc. This is a literal translation of what an American would say in English in his country, but it´s brow-raising in Russia.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I was being sarcastic. Apologies if it was not taken that way.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I think you and I have had very opposite life experiences. I won't go into everything you've said that is completely opposite of how I've seen things, but I will say to #3 that I found loads of positive things in Russia, which always seem to surprise my friends here at home in the U.S.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

That's very insightful, thank you! I can certainly use that in my presentation.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

This is a good point that I address in my section on different communication styles, but which I could tie in here. We tell Americans that to a Russian, "How are you?" is a QUESTION, not a GREETING. That seems to make the point.

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I'd never thought of that before! Good point. It's like a linguistic reflex for us, I guess. :)

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

I wasn't offended by it, because there is a grain of truth to it.

How to respond? Either ignore it, or present the other side of the situation to them. When my friends said, "Why are Americans always smiling?", I said, "Well, why are Russians always frowning?"

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

This may be true, but (a) I have not been to Cuba and so can not personally confirm this, and (b) dragging yet another country into the discussion will not clear up the issue for my listeners.

[shariperkins.livejournal.com]

Although I didn't live in the same corridor as you, most likely, I have lived in dorms in both the US and Russia, and in both NYC and Moscow. :-)

[oryx_and_crake]

Do you see a thing made of a bracket and a colon in the end of lovimoment's comment? It is called a smiley and means that whatever written before it is a joke. Please do not look for insults where there are none.

[kupa7884.livejournal.com]

I wouldn't necessarily say that Russians are pessimistic or negative, but I did have a few bad experiences when people in Russia discovered I was American. There's a belief among many Russians that Americans are all really rich and have nothing better to do with their money than spend it on frivolous things.
Also Americans tend to have a reputation for being overly loud (which is sometimes true), and I think a lot of Russians find it to be very immature. When I was in Saint Petersburg one summer, a few of my American friends and I were walking down the street and this random Russian guy came running up to us and spit on my foot. Although I assume he was really drunk, I think he was mad at us for talking too loud. However, if you're willing to sacrifice your American culture and really try to blend into the Russian culture, most Russians are really responsive and happy to see you putting some effort in.
On another note, most Americans (at least students) really don't have much of an idea about Russia since the fall of the Soviet Union. For instance, most Americans wouldn't know that the Russian economy suffered a collapse in 1998, which wasn't that long ago and caused a lot of additional suffering for many people. In my opinion Russia is still recovering from the breakup of the Soviet Union, and until it fully rebuilds itself, many people may still be unhappy.
Sorry if this post was really long =)

[inoctiluci.livejournal.com]

It seems to be fairly common in Irkutsk for university students to greet each other with "привет, как дела?" and to expect an answer along the lines of "ничего" or "нормально" and nothing more. Sometimes the answers to that question are more indepth, but that can also be said about those conversations in the states.

[dyvo.livejournal.com]

Hi Heather!!!
What a great surprise to meet you here!!!!
Recognize me?

[lena-supercat.livejournal.com]

I think a large part of the difference is what people think of as optimism/pessimism. I once had a conversation with a friend of mine, and he ended up telling me "I had no idea you were so pessimistic". I was rather shocked, since I'd been telling him some of the thoughts which I personally find very hopeful and uplifting - the kinds of thoughts which kept me going through the worst parts of my life. (Incidentally, he is Australian, I was born in Russia and moved to Australia when I was 9.)

P.S. You write interesting posts. Is it ok if I friend you?

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

Hmmm...that's something to think about.

I welcome new friends. :)

[lovimoment.livejournal.com]

Lesia!

Мир тесен! Ж)

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Thanks, I'm really glad it made sense :)

[cabarethaze.livejournal.com]

Glad I could help :) Hope it goes well!

[dyvo.livejournal.com]

Это точно!!! :))))))