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Sep. 13th, 2006 02:58 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
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learn_russianA fun question born only of my boredom and curiosity for these sorts of things:
Can you guys tell me about the characteristics of different accents or dialects of Russian? Like what makes someone in Moscow sound different from someone in St. Pete etc. I remember hearing that the accent from the Urals was way different from moscow or something... not really too sure of course.
Thanks ^_^
Can you guys tell me about the characteristics of different accents or dialects of Russian? Like what makes someone in Moscow sound different from someone in St. Pete etc. I remember hearing that the accent from the Urals was way different from moscow or something... not really too sure of course.
Thanks ^_^
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Date: 2006-09-13 07:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 07:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 07:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 07:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 07:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 08:01 pm (UTC)On the other side, accents from ukraine and caucasus are easily noticed, and some things might depend on it.
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Date: 2006-09-13 08:26 pm (UTC)Elsewhere, a linguist says that "rain" is spelled "dosht" in Piter and "dazhdya" (with stress on the second "a") and gives another examples of lexical differences between Moscow and Piter, such as "pesok"/"sahar" for "sugar" (?? - I knew that "pesok" means "sand"...)
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Date: 2006-09-13 08:35 pm (UTC)Though on the whole it is true that regional variations in pronunciation in Russian nowadays are much, much less distinctive than in, say, British English.
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Date: 2006-09-13 08:51 pm (UTC)But again - most people are comfortable with both urban and rural pronounces, and nothing really depends on it.
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Date: 2006-09-13 09:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 09:43 pm (UTC)"Pesok/Песок" really means sand, there is no error.. And as sugar in form of little crystals looks like coarse sand we call it "sahar-pesok/сахар-песок" or just "pesok/песок" sometimes.
So when you're told to "polojit' pesku/положить песку/put some 'sand'", you shouldn't really add sand to your meal/drink ;)
And sugar in cuboids is often called "sahar-rafinad/сахар-рафинад" or simply "rafinad/рафинад". As well as sugar "cubes", "kubiki/кубики". Hope this helps ;)
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Date: 2006-09-13 10:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 10:30 pm (UTC)And one more thing about the Moscow/Piter specific: what means "ely-paly" (елы-палы)? Somewhere on the Net it says that it's an expression from Piter. I found it firstly in the Akvarium song, "Sestra": "Сестра (дык, елы-палы), Здравствуй, сестра". And there's also a variant (Елки-палки).
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Date: 2006-09-13 10:43 pm (UTC)Northen dialects prononce O's were you write it (хОрОшО)
Southern (and Ukrainians) prononce Г as a strong 'h' (and those of them, who want to speak standard Russian, prononce it all right, but forget to change it to "к" in final positions; e.g. сне[х] instead of сне[к]).
Peterbugians used to prononce "коне[ч]но", "було[ч]ная" (in Moscow - "коне[ш]но", "було[ш]ная")
There are a lot of differences in lexics and intonation, but they need more place to explain.
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Date: 2006-09-13 10:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 11:03 pm (UTC)----
I daresay your linguist seriously misleads you. "Dozhdya" (where 'o' is pronounced more like 'a') is not any specific way of pronunciation, but just a genitive from "dozhd'". And in the nominative case 'o', being under stress because it is in the word's only syllable, cannot be pronounced in any other way but 'o', regardless of the speaker's geographical location.
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Date: 2006-09-13 11:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 11:12 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-13 11:17 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2006-09-13 11:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 06:09 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 06:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 06:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 06:45 am (UTC)To be exact, Ukrainian (as well as few adjacent Southern Russian dialects of Belgorod and Kursk) has voiced glottal fricative [ɦ] (voiced counterpart of [h]), while most Southern Russian dialects (starting from ~150 miles south and west of Moscow) have voiced velar fricative [γ] (voiced pair of [x]). These are different sounds, although most Standard/Northern Russian speakers don't see much difference.
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Date: 2006-09-14 07:03 am (UTC)Oh no, it may be only a personal trait. Any type of "r" other than an alveolar trill is considered a speech disorder in any dialect of any Slavic language (maybe except Lusatian?). Nevertheless, the dialect of Middle Urals (Ekaterinburg, Perm) has some peculiarities indeed. Most noticeable include the following:
- "swallowing" vowels: unlike Standard Russian which has double-stage reduction of a's and o's ([ʌ]/[ə]), they reduce all unstressed a's and o's to schwa;
- rising tone in affirmative sentences.
Personally, I can't stand both ;-)
Oddly enough, Southern Urals dialects have nothing to do with the above. Rural dialect is something transitional between Southern Russian and Ukrainian, and city dwellers (e.g. in Orenburg) speak perfect Standard Russian.
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Date: 2006-09-14 07:17 am (UTC)- Southern (Ukrainian and some adjacent Southern Russian dialects);
- Central (Belorussian; Central, Northwestern and the rest of the Southern Russian dialects);
- Northern (Northeastern Russian dialects, also spoken in various areas of Siberia).
Well, it is really easier to understand a countryside Belorussian than a Volodga/Kostroma rural inhabitant: apart from very conservative phonetics (esp. vowel system), their dialect also has some unique grammar features unknown to other East Slavs (such as definite article etc.)
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Date: 2006-09-14 07:18 am (UTC)off topic
Date: 2006-09-14 08:12 am (UTC)Бы and ли are always separate.
Re: off topic
Date: 2006-09-14 08:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 08:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 08:21 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 08:39 am (UTC)As for [дощ], for me it sounds as weird as [булошная], e.g. (I'm in the Northern Caucasus).And I've heard [дощ] from several elderly people somewhere in Yaroslavl'. It's just was what I've been taught at a university. The main idea was that the Moscow variant is a bit softer then the Piter one.
I guess by now it's not that obvious and easy to tell as it was several decades ago.
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Date: 2006-09-14 08:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 02:49 pm (UTC)It seems to me that in Russia the divide between youth culture and culture of the general population is less pronounced than it is in the U.S., although I think that's starting to change and genuine youth culture is appearing. I saw a lot of this in terms of things like tastes in music and films, but also in broader terms of values and attitudes (about life, politics, etc.).
Thoughts?
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Date: 2006-09-14 02:54 pm (UTC)But I can't figure out why I only heard this speech feature in the Urals (I've never heard it in SPB, although I've spent twice as much time there). Maybe something in the water?
It makes sense that it's a disorder and not dialectal, because I noticed it only in individuals, not in whole families (whose memebers usually share a dialect, even if it's the dialect of a different region).
But why so much of it in Perm'? Coincidence, maybe.
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Date: 2006-09-14 03:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 03:23 pm (UTC)I think, in America, rock-and-roll will always be the domain of the young...as soon as older people start to like it, the music changes to something they will hate. (I think this is how metal became popular.) It's funny to think that jazz music was once considered wild, controversial, and slightly sleazy, but it's now the choice listening of many decent people. :)
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Date: 2006-09-14 03:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 03:27 pm (UTC)out of pure curiosity - you mean -та?
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Date: 2006-09-14 03:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-14 03:49 pm (UTC)- rising tone in affirmative sentences.
Personally, I can't stand both ;-)
I second that. BTW, I've also heard people from Arkhangelsk region swallowing vowels (but much milder).
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Date: 2006-09-14 06:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-15 12:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-15 05:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-15 05:39 am (UTC)I think so. Among people who had problems with "r" I knew of, three persons were Volkovs (and they were not relatives!) :-) By the way, here in Russia incapability of pronouncing alveolar trill properly is often connected with Jewish ancesrty (thanks to Yiddish, which, like many other Germanic languages/dialects, has uvular trill instead).
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Date: 2006-09-15 06:18 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-15 04:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-09-15 04:49 pm (UTC)