ФРГ

[zombie-laika.livejournal.com]

My textbook says that ФРГ stands for Федеративная Республика Германия. Why isn't it Федеративная Республика Германии?

Comments

[gordin.livejournal.com]

Textbook is correct.

[zombie-laika.livejournal.com]

But why? I'd expect it to be "Republic of Germany".

[gordin.livejournal.com]

It's the way the official names of this country are written.
Think of it as something like "Germany, a Republic".

[zombie-laika.livejournal.com]

Interesting, thanks for the help.

[fischele.livejournal.com]

In German it's called "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" without any preposition.

[wolk-off.livejournal.com]

Seconded.

[halevi.livejournal.com]

No, you are not right. See my comment below.

[freedomcry.livejournal.com]

In English you'd say "the band Linkin Park" and not "the band of Linkin Park". Russian extends this usage to countries.

[halevi.livejournal.com]

According with the academic rules of Russian language, it sould be "Федеративная Республика Германии". This is the only correct form in literary Russian.

BUT! Because of "Германия" and "Германии" are very similar --- almost identical --- in Russian prononcation, thay are often mixed in writing too. In the last 10 years the mitalen form "Федеративная Республика Германия" are often encountered in mass media and even in some textbooks.

Resume. The correct form is "Федеративная Республика Германии". But the mistaken form cited above is encountered very often. So you should not be surprised about it.

[zombie-laika.livejournal.com]

Even more interesting. Thank you!

[campocebe.livejournal.com]

I do not not think, it's because they are "very similar". It's more a political aspect and even a demand of our German partners. It was ok to write ГерманиИ at the time of DDR and FRG (2 countries), but not NOW, when there is only ONE Germany

[beowabbit]

The comment above about “the band Linkin Park” is pretty much right on. It’s a peculiarity of English that we use “of” in appositive phrases this way: I live in the city of Boston, and I go by the name of Jay. Boston = the city I live in; Jay = the name I go by. I think this might be something English picked up from Norman French, because Romance languages do it too, but most Slavic and Germanic languages do it just by sticking the two noun phrases that are being equated next to each other in the same case, so Федеративная Республика Германия, город Бостон, Bundesrepublik Deutschland, Stadt Boston.

English isn’t entirely consistent about this, because we say “the city of Boston” but “the band Linkin Park”. I’m not sure exactly what the rules are, but certain nouns seem likelier to have “of” after them than others.

In some cases you can use either form: “He was given the title Duke of West Roxbury” or “He was given the title of Duke of West Roxbury”.

[gera.livejournal.com]

How about the State of Israel?
Государство Израиля?

A mistake bcoming a rule? Or any other reason?

[colonelrabin.livejournal.com]

As you can see here (http://encycl.yandex.ru/art.xml?art=bse/00083/48700.htm&encpage=bse&mrkp=http%3A//hghltd.yandex.com/yandbtm%3Furl%3Dhttp%253A//encycl.yandex.ru/texts/bse/00083/48700.htm%26text%3D%25C3%25E5%25F0%25EC%25E0%25ED%25E8%25FF%26reqtext%3D%25C3%25E5%25F0%25EC%25E0%25ED%25E8%25FF%253A%253A4312%26%26isu%3D2), the Big Soviet Encyclopedy preferred the correct way: Федеративная Республика Германии.

BUT! Here's a quote from the portal Gramota.ru:

О склонении слова Германия

Министерства иностранных дел России и Германии договорились 19 декабря 1995 г. не склонять по падежам слово "Германия" в полном наименовании государства "Федеративная Республика Германия" в официальных документах на русском языке. Договоренность достигнута по настоятельной просьбе германской стороны и на основании экспертного заключения Института русского языка РАН.
Директор 4 европейского департамента
А. Головин

29 июня 1995 (?????) г.

Translation: The Ministries of Foreign Affairs ofRussia and Germany agreed on December, 19th, 1995 not to decline any more the word "Germany" in th full name of the state "Federal Republic of Germany" in official documents in Russian. The agreement was met due to an emphatic request of the German party and according to the Opinion letter of RAS Institute of Russian Language.

Signature, Date.

[ekeme-ndiba.livejournal.com]

In fact, both forms are grammatically correct, but «Федеративная Республика Германии» is stylistically better. This form was actually in use in Soviet times, nevertheless, the situation changed upon official request from German authorities. As stated above, nowadays a direct calque from "Bundesrepublik Deutschland" is used.

[halevi.livejournal.com]

No. In Hebrew: "Mdina Israel" has no "of".

[gera.livejournal.com]

In Hebrew it's actually Medinat Israel, and this is literally the State of Israel, Medina shel Israel.

[b0bb.livejournal.com]

It has nothing to do with stylistics.

As it was correctly stated before, the situation with unclear declension existed, basically, only in case of Germany - due to mainly political reasons, not linguistic ones.

Germany had two republics: Federal and Democratic. So, to reflect that, the word "Германия" was in genitive form, think about that along these lines: "Это какая [из двух] республика Германии? Федеративная". Hence "Федеративная Республика Германии". This form was kind of an exception, not a rule.

In the meantime, without political pressure, the grammatical rules were properly followed everywhere else: "Республика Франция" (but:
"Пятая Республика Франции" - note the plurality of choices here), "Королевство Дания", "Государство Израиль", "Великое Герцогство Люксембург".

Therefore, it is only logical that the grammatical rules were finally restored in case of "Федеративная Республика Германия".

Hope the above clarified the situation enough to close the discussion :)

[b0bb.livejournal.com]

> Resume. The correct form is "Федеративная Республика Германии".

Your resume is wrong (see below).

[khathi.livejournal.com]

As far as I remember, it was NEVER written that way even when Germany was separated. it was still "Германская Демократическая Республика" for Deutsche Demokratische Republik and "Федеративная республика Германия" for Bundesrepublik Deutschland. BTW, if you're writing "DDR", which is German, you should also write "BRD", not "FRG", which is Russian or English abbreviation.

[khathi.livejournal.com]

So, you mean in this case Taiwan should go by the name "Республика Китая"? ;)

[b0bb.livejournal.com]

Don't "перегибай палку" :)

However, if it was known as "Тайваньская Республика Китая", it would sound as reasonable as "Федеративная Республика Германии"

[khathi.livejournal.com]

But nobody will ever call it so. ^_^

Re: A mistake bcoming a rule? Or any other reason?

[oryx_and_crake]

Very strange. In Народная республика Болгария, Болгария is also in nominative. Республика Афганистан, государство Израиль, город Париж - none of these has the actual country or city's name in genitive. Народная республика БолгариИ? I don't think so.

[gordin.livejournal.com]

Never be so sure.

Re: A mistake bcoming a rule? Or any other reason?

[alexboogie.livejournal.com]

may be they was able to use "Федеративной Республики Германия" or "Федеративную Республику Германия" sentences in official documents before 29 june 1995...now you should say "Федеративной Республики Германии" or "Федеративную Республику Германию"...it is no concern of nominative "Федеративная Республика Германия", at this point your book is right

[campocebe.livejournal.com]

it was almost ALWAYS written ФРГерманиИ till 1995.
DDR is well known abbreviation, although it is the German one, like CCCР. But I doubt that somebody who doesn not speak german would recognize the meaning of BRD

[khathi.livejournal.com]

Maybe just a memory lapse...

[tmin.livejournal.com]

it reminds me one typical turn of speech which correctness depends of who is referring to it:

"согласно приказа"
yandex - Результат поиска: страниц — 12 930, сайтов — не менее 503
if you are military specialist you should use this one

"согласно приказу"
yandex - Результат поиска: страниц — 68 992, сайтов — не менее 2 071
is used by all others, including governmental deparment's officials

[sushchestvo.livejournal.com]

To my mind "Республика Германия" is a case of using a noun in the attributive function. Or not?

[e-tolstoon.livejournal.com]

I can shure you, there are no any absolutе rooles in Russian language.

[oryx_and_crake]

"if you are military specialist you should use this one"
No you should not. It is a mistake. (Even if many people make it, it is still a mistake.)

[oryx_and_crake]

Yes there are; and please do not give false information to language learners.

OK. it could be classification rule

[tmin.livejournal.com]

you are definitely not a military specialist

[e-tolstoon.livejournal.com]

There always are a lot of exceptions, I mean.

[oryx_and_crake]

"it was almost ALWAYS written ФРГерманиИ till 1995."

I don't think so.

Re: A mistake bcoming a rule? Or any other reason?

[campocebe.livejournal.com]

because there were only one Bulgaria, Paris and so on, but 2 German Republics.